[dsfyu404ed]

>Not if you count rent / mortgage

Depends where you live. There's no reason the 175k employee can't live somewhere "bad" or suffer a long commute. Most major western european cities and their suburbs are by no means cheap to find housing in.

>car & car insurance

Most white collar Europeans with families own cars. Owning and operating a vehicle is astronomically cheaper in the US, even in California which has insanely high costs compared to the median or mean state.

>kindergarten

Part of the free (at the point of use, obviously it's paid for by taxes) public school system in the US.

>And you medical coverage might still cover less than the European one.

I don't want to have a healthcare debate but the cost was addressed higher up the thread and the difference in coverage between what American BigCo employees get and what Europeans get (and both those classes of insurance are diverse enough to make comparison impractical without sweeping generalizations) is not going to be meaningful except in the edge cases.

[LunaSea]

> Depends where you live. There's no reason the 175k employee can't live somewhere "bad" or suffer a long commute. Most major western european cities and their suburbs are by no means cheap to find housing in.

I don't think there are many "bad" places that are cheap around Silicon Valley.

Most western European cities have neighbourhoods that are drastically cheaper than the well-off ones.

> Most white collar Europeans with families own cars. Owning and operating a vehicle is astronomically cheaper in the US, even in California which has insanely high costs compared to the median or mean state.

New cars in America are twice as expensive as the average in the EU.

Average car insurance in America is five times as expensive as the average in the EU.

> Part of the free (at the point of use, obviously it's paid for by taxes) public school system in the US.

Sorry, I meant nursery.* Kindergarten is free in the EU as well.

> I don't want to have a healthcare debate but the cost was addressed higher up the thread and the difference in coverage between what American BigCo employees get and what Europeans get (and both those classes of insurance are diverse enough to make comparison impractical without sweeping generalizations) is not going to be meaningful except in the edge cases.

Well that's convenient. Based on the American medical debt lets go with a lesser coverage for the American workforce. Also it's not taking into account the cost of opportunity of having medical insurance event when you won't be employed anymore in case of an accident or other reason.

[dsfyu404ed]

>I don't think there are many "bad" places that are cheap around Silicon Valley.

They're not cheap relative to other parts of the country buy they're cheap relative to where most white collar employees are living. The janitor and the plumber have to live somewhere and you can pay what they pay if you don't mind living among them.

>Most western European cities have neighbourhoods that are drastically cheaper than the well-off ones.

And in American cities those neighborhoods are particular suburbs (often cities themselves). Cheap housing that is literally in the city is much less numerous.

>New cars in America are twice as expensive as the average in the EU.

You can't compare car prices without comparing the cars and the associated costs. Americans buy much larger more expensive vehicles because they can because the taxes are lower, the fees are lower and the insurance is cheaper. This topic has been beaten to death. Americans buy $30k crossovers because those $30k crossovers cost $30k out the door. Contrast that to the typical taxes on new cars in Europe and you'll see why Europeans gravitate toward lower purchase prices.

>Average car insurance in America is five times as expensive as the average in the EU.

Citation please. This flies in the face of all my anecdotal experience.

>Sorry, I meant nursery.* Kindergarten is free in the EU as well.

We call that daycare. In the US you have an entire range of options from a high priced daycare with a low child:staff ratio, located in a high end part of town, quadruple extra special background checks on all the employees, etc, etc all the way down to single person cash only operations that people run out of their homes. It's as expensive or cheap as you're willing to make it. Remember, the poor families have to send their kids somewhere too so it's not like options don't exist at every price point. It's rare in tech because the employee demographics result in low demand but many employers offer free/cheap on-site daycare or a voucher to a particular daycare as a job perk. That said, work from home perks that are common in tech can alleviate some of the demand for daycare.

>Well that's convenient. Based on the American medical debt lets go with a lesser coverage for the American workforce. Also it's not taking into account the cost of opportunity of having medical insurance event when you won't be employed anymore in case of an accident or other reason.

I'm done debating with you. I'm not going to get tricked into trying to defend the American system as overall better which is where you seem to be nudging the goalposts toward. All I am saying is that even with it's failings someone making 175k (a pay grade certainly not representative of the workforce in general) is likely better off with it than taking a 100k pay cut for the European system.

[LunaSea]

So let me get this right.

It is possible to spend the same amount in medical, car and daycare expenses if you keep a job while being ill, ride a beat-up car and leave your kid to a shady cash-only operating in someone's home.

So explain to me how earning $100K more is so interesting again?

cf: Average American car insurance prices: https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-cos...

cf: Average European car insurance prices: https://www.insuranceeurope.eu/sites/default/files/attachmen...

cf: Average American prices for Toyota Corolla: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_prices_by_city?...

cf: Average European prices for Toyota Corolla: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_prices_by_city?...

[kortilla]

You can get a new Toyota/Honda car for 2 months pay after taxes in the US scenario. And it’s trivial to go to Nevada from the Bay Area to make the purchase and pocket the cost difference if you have a spare weekend.

You spend more on medical out of pocket, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the pittance folks make in Europe. Set aside $200k over 16 years of school/daycare and you’ve still cleared in excess of a million dollars more than your European counterparts.

There is a reason the top SWEs in the world flock to the tech companies in the US. The income is drastically better and if you don’t succumb to lifestyle inflation, you can live like a typical European middle class citizen (one car, tiny apartment, little eating out) and retire after a 15 year career.

[LunaSea]

> There is a reason the top SWEs in the world flock to the tech companies in the US.

I can tell you from experience that no developer I have ever met in my career want to move to the US. Sorry to burst your bubble. And it's not even a question of money for most of them.

> The income is drastically better and if you don’t succumb to lifestyle inflation, you can live like a typical European middle class citizen (one car, tiny apartment, little eating out)

That's not a typical European middle class citizen. Typical European middle class citizen already bought a house within that timeframe.

> retire after a 15 year career

Not sure where you're retiring but it's not going to be Europe because you would be way, way off money wise since you don't own anything.