[cambalache]

What is this ridiculous trend of judging characters of the past by today's standards? According to the author Machiavelli highly original philosophy should be partially dismissed because he frequented prostitutes (male and female).

[goto11]

To be fair, the incident described where he cheats a prostitute for money and tries to pin it on his friend, would be considered just as immoral then as now. Perhaps even more so then, since he is damaging the honor of a friend.

And I don't see the article dismissing his philosophy due to this. It's a biography, so it is about his life as much as his philosophy.

[ekianjo]

> ridiculous trend of judging characters of the past by today's standards?

mental reduction, it prevents people from having to think that the context of civilization is ever changing, which makes judgments very complex. They prefer it single-variable.

[sideshowb]

I only skimmed the piece but didn't see anywhere the author says his philosophy should be dismissed because of this? It came over more as a warts and all type picture.

[watwut]

What is this ridiculous trend of making up past standards how it suits us? Why cant we admit past successful people ever did something wrong or immoral by whatever standard.

> he picked up a pretty lad and, after he has had his way in the darkness, explains that he has no money, but states that he is called Filippo Casavecchia—and if he calls at his shop tomorrow, the boy will get his money. A surprised Filippo, a buddy of Machiavelli’s, denies it was him,

The falsely accused friend would not think it is ok and nor did prostitute boy.

> and the boy threatens him with prosecution for sodomy.

Apparently, the act was illegal.

> Filippo asks if the boy would recognise the man’s voice? The boy says yes, so he is taken to a spot near the Porta Romana where Machiavelli regularly holds court. The boy creeps up behind the bench where the great man is telling an anecdote. He sees the boy and runs off.

If that was ok by past standards, why did he run?

"Past" is not universal excuse. Easy example is that I wont excuse Nazi leadership for just being men of their time. "It was in the past therefore it was ok" is ridiculous standard.

[cambalache]

I cant believe I need to point this out, but if you are comparing Nazi Germany (oh Goodwin how right you were) with skipping out of paying a prostitute I think no further conversation is needed.

> Apparently, the act was illegal.

Oh no, and he went anyway and fucked a man, despite being illegal.

> If that was ok by past standards, why did he run?

Dont be dense, it is not OK, it was not OK then and it is even less OK now.The point is that for his times this was not more than a prank.Hell, the trope of running away from a check/bill and left your friends to manage is a classic in old and modern fiction. The only thing than could be considered really outrageous is if the boy was underage, but yet again the age of consent in medieval Florence was probably different than ours.

[watwut]

> Oh no, and he went anyway and fucked a man, despite being illegal.

Now you are applying todays standard to past actions.

> Dont be dense, it is not OK, it was not OK then and it is even less OK now.The point is that for his times this was not more than a prank.

No, it was not. Neither for his times nor for current. You are making standards as it pleases you.

> Hell, the trope of running away from a check/bill and left your friends to manage is a classic in old and modern fiction.

In real life, in country where homosexual acts are illegal, being suddenly accused of one is not fun harmless prank.

Real life is not fiction. In real life, had it been only about money, your friends will distance from you or take you to small claims court. In fiction, it is pretty normal to kill quite a few people with no big deal happening - as long as the killed people are "bad".

> I cant believe I need to point this out, but if you are comparing Nazi Germany (oh Goodwin how right you were) with skipping out of paying a prostitute I think no further conversation is needed.

I am not saying they are the same. I am saying that knee jerk "past standards" argument is nonsense.