[zimpenfish]

> other people are able to accomplish more

By cheating, tho'. It's the same as saying people who get rich by dodging taxes or defrauding people are "accomplishing more" than people who play 'fair and square'.

(Personally, I don't care if people time travel and island-hop to grind turnips all day - it affects nothing about my game and my experience.)

> folks who are ending friendships and getting genuinely angry over time traveling have an unhealthy attachment

Or they might feel that someone who is ok cheating at a zero-stakes, zero-effect game might not be a great person after all. It's the difference between, say, cheating your taxes purely because you want to be rich vs dodging your taxes because you have to feed your family.

[jchw]

> Or they might feel that someone who is ok cheating at a zero-stakes, zero-effect game might not be a great person after all. It's the difference between, say, cheating your taxes purely because you want to be rich vs dodging your taxes because you have to feed your family.

I don’t cheat at Animal Crossing. No real reason not to, I just don’t feel like it. I am not in a rush or anything. But to me, Animal Crossing is (and I mean, to be fair, literally is) a computer program and “cheating” is really just “using in unintended ways” that are not really much different from modding games (that are not intended to be.)

I can’t tell if you are playing devil’s advocate or not but I view this argument as being pretty much projection. I think everyone should feel guilt-free to explore video games and the arts however they enjoy so as long as nobody is directly being harmed by it. I personally would bet the farm and some change that there’s no correlation between cheating in Animal Crossing and “not [being] a great person.”

And I’m not saying this as though I view video games as purely being software and experience absolutely no emotion. I am pretty much saying that for Animal Crossing, but there are plenty of games where I felt very immersed and felt empathy/sympathy for characters the way I would in other realms of fiction and indeed, real life. I couldn’t do “genocide route” in Undertale, for example. But, that also does not mean that I engage in this stuff as if it’s real, because of course, it’s not. It’s fiction. It’s walled off into its own space where I can explore and experience things in ways that I probably wouldn’t and maybe would not want to in real life. I certainly do not condone my actions in Grand Theft Auto as good, but I assure you I am no closer to committing such offenses in real life.

(Aside: I think the video game violence debates are equally fascinating as a subject matter, on that note.)

I am also not at all suggesting how you consume this content has no bearing on reality, but I am certainly saying I believe it’s very non-trivial and fair to handwave as being too complicated and personal to make pure blanket statements about.

I went a bit rambley here, sorry. My thoughts on this subject matter are complicated, although it isn’t really something I hold too personal, especially because the reality is I play exceedingly few video games anymore.

I don’t really condemn anyone for their opinion on this either, but I do feel it is a good moment to reflect and broaden the horizons (pun intended) regarding how people consume and enjoy games. Again, watching people play this game has been absolutely fascinating, no two people I’ve seen appear to get the same exact thing out of it!

[zimpenfish]

> I can’t tell if you are playing devil’s advocate or not

Not really - I can well believe that someone could/would view another person who "cheats" (their opinion) at zero stake games to be a less worthy person. I wouldn't personally condemn someone for "cheating" Animal Crossing - I'd think they were missing the point of the game per my perspective, mind, and it would definitely confuse me about their outlook.

Same as if someone cheated at Monopoly or Scrabble whilst playing board games at home, I guess.

> I think everyone should feel guilt-free to explore video games and the arts however they enjoy

In an ideal world, yes. (I do try but having been a ridiculously cynical and judgemental arsehole for many a year, it is taking some time to adjust.)

> no two people I’ve seen appear to get the same exact thing out of it!

I think that's the beautiful thing about Animal Crossing.

[f00_]

Are you against wave-cheating in ssbm?

[zimpenfish]

I'm assuming SSBM is Super Smash Brothers Melee (had to look it up)? Never played it or any variety of Super Smash Brothers for that matter. As such, I'm not entirely sure I'm qualified to give an opinion ... but that never stopped anyone on HN.

Assuming you mean "wavedashing" (the only vaguely relevant thing I could find), and given that https://www.ssbwiki.com/Wavedash claims it was explicitly left in as a mechanic during development, no, I'd not consider that a "cheat".

Would you?

[jchw]

If the developer’s opinion is actually what matters most to you, then you may find it interesting that the developers of Animal Crossing seem to have a rather tepid view on time traveling. Many have interpreted them as having said time traveling is not cheating, although I am not sure exactly what that is concluded from; still, it does seem as though they acknowledge it as valid, if still unintended, a way to play the game:

>“Adding all the seasonal events by updates wasn’t our way to shun away time travel by any means,” Kyogoku said. “But Animal Crossing is a game that users are able to play and enjoy throughout the year.”

Of course though, this worldview is pretty hard to really get behind because it’s even more arbitrary than usual. Some of the developers may dislike time travel and others might endorse it.

Moreover, opinions of the developers may even shift. On the topic of Wavedashing, Sakurai expresses discontent for it:

> While Sakurai noted that wavedashing was widespread in an interview with Nintendo Power, he disliked the technique, as he felt it had led to a significant degree of separation between beginning and advanced players.

All in all, even trying to be very generous and non-presumptive, I am having trouble seeing the argument as having a rational basis. It seems like one born and mostly justified only from emotional response.

[zimpenfish]

> the developers of Animal Crossing seem to have a rather tepid view on time traveling

That may be but it's not a mechanic that's specifically in the game itself, is it? Which means you can't (honestly) equate it to wave dashing to make a point.

> I am having trouble seeing the argument as having a rational basis.

Which argument? The one that time travel in Animal Crossing is "cheating"? In that case, go nuts, time travel all you want! But at least allow others their opinion on the topic.

[betenoire]

Can you really "cheat" when there is, as you say, nothing at stake and nothing to gain?

What does cheating even mean then?