[wvenable]

> "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal.

The problem with the ideal is that most people have it wrong. "Free speech" is not speech without consequences.

Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. If nobody wants to associate with you because of your speech, that's their right. You are not entitled to a soapbox.

[autoexec]

> Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard.

If someone offers a platform for the public to use but censors people who say things they don't like, that is a clear violation of free speech principals. I don't have to listen to anything, but if someone chooses to speak and I choose to listen no one should try to prevent us from doing so.

There are consequences for speech, but they shouldn't involve include gatekeepers silencing specific voices on the basis of what they have to say. In fact, if you want to take a punitive approach to speech then censoring people so we never get a chance to hear what they're saying actually denies us the ability to make a judgement and hold speakers accountable for those words.

I'd sure like to know if my own doctor was spreading misinformation and making illogical errors when talking about a global pandemic that's impacting me. If she was, but I wasn't allowed to know about that I might easily think she was trustworthy when I shouldn't.

[skuthus]

You are welcome to find the video on other platforms

[dependenttypes]

> "Free speech" is not speech without consequences

This is literally what free speech is. "You can speak your mind or I will kill you" or "You can speak your mind but if I disagree with you I will make sure that nobody can hear you again (by de-platforming you)" is not very free speech-y.

> but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard

You should certainly have the right to be heard by these that want to hear you.

[skuthus]

It's more like 'I have the right to choose which voices get heard on my private platform'

[JoeAltmaier]

Yeah no. YouTube is arguably a very, very public platform. Open to the public; entirely populated and funded by the public (i.e. millions of content providers and viewers generate all the income).

Its reasonable to have different rules for a local newspaper vs a worldwide monopolist.

[wvenable]

> entirely populated and funded by the public

You just described every single business in the whole world except those funded by taxpayer money (which is generally what is meant by "funded by the public"). Actually, YouTube isn't even funded by the public -- they're funded by advertisers.

> Its reasonable to have different rules for a local newspaper vs a worldwide monopolist.

All local newspapers are owned by large companies. As for monopolist, you can't just throw that around without argument. YouTube is far far from the only provider of online video.

[JoeAltmaier]

YouTube is almost the exclusive (by daily views) provider. How can that be in question?

[wvenable]

That doesn't make it a monopoly! My local big box grocery store has more visitors than my local corner store.

Any other video provider on the Internet is just as accessible. If YouTube went away tomorrow, videos would still exist on the Internet. Most videos posted to YouTube of any value would immediately show up elsewhere.

Have you considered YouTube is popular because it's at least a little bit curated? Heck, YouTube wouldn't even exist without ContentID.

[dependenttypes]

This is irrelevant to what I was talking about.

[wvenable]

If you post a sign on my front lawn, I have the right to remove it. It's my lawn. That's my freedom of expression to remove it. It seems like you just want it one way.

[dependenttypes]

Seems like you did not bother reading what I wrote.

[AnthonyMouse]

You are entitled to a soapbox. You're not entitled to an audience. Each person chooses for themselves, not one party choosing for others.

[wvenable]

You aren't entitled to a soapbox unless you make your own soapbox or buy one. Nobody is required to give you one. If you have a soapbox, you might still not get an audience.

YouTube took their soapbox away.

[AnthonyMouse]

They are buying one. The market rate happens to be free; they don't charge money for people to post videos on YouTube. But now Google is saying they won't sell you a soapbox, the same way they do everyone else, based on what you have to say. Building your own YouTube is not within the capacity of ordinary people.

You can either have companies that make decisions for their platforms or you can have monopoly/oligopoly platforms, but not both.

[wvenable]

No, using a free service is not the same as purchasing something that happens to be zero dollars. If there is a contractual relationship you can be sure that the terms are that Google can remove your video for any reason of their choosing and by using their service you are agreeing to that. And you do agree with that because it's free.

Nobody says you have to build your own YouTube as that is certainly not the only way you can get your message out. You're just being cheap. You want free stuff without consequences and that's not how the world works or how it should work.

[AnthonyMouse]

It has nothing to do with cheap. Anybody can register a domain name and buy a web server and buy a building to put it in and internet service to host it with and post all their videos and they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them.

The thing YouTube has that isn't available to the average Joe isn't web servers, it's all the glue that comes from being a part of Google which causes YouTube videos to show up in search results and recommendations when the exact same video posted on Joe's Self-Hosted Blog does not. This makes YouTube and Facebook and similarly massive corporations in not the same position as the corner store who should be able to refuse to sell you things for any reason they want, because there you could always buy it from a thousand other places. In this case the thousand other places don't exist.

Moreover, having people pay for something doesn't constrain speech when everybody who wants to speak pays the same amount. But when you start changing the amount based on what they want to say, you're imposing a penalty on expressing certain opinions.

[wvenable]

> they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them.

You might not be cheap anymore, now you're just lazy. It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door.

The expectation that others should both host and promote your crazy ideas for free is the problem.

[dependenttypes]

> Anybody can register a domain name and buy a web server

Until they kick you out. The only solution would be to use tor but then you would get even less views.