[contravert]

It's unbelievable how effective the west's disinformation, FUD and propaganda, lead by the US, against China has been. It's pretty much on par with the narrative leading up the the Iraq war.

There's even documents describing this blame China strategy as a way to deflect Trump's failures: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/25/senate-go...

Despite not having any concrete evidence, you don't trust China's numbers and that they have coronavirus contained. Have you considered that you might be thinking this way because of a coordinated propaganda campaign?

Objectively looking at the situation on the ground in China right now, life is going back to normal and there hasn't been massive outbreaks of covid19 and rushes to the hospital. You can't hide exponential growth if the virus was not contained.

[LatteLazy]

If Chinas numbers are accurate, then we are doing this all for nothing, the total global deathtoll will be less than a normal year's flu season.

Is that your position?

I should be clear: I don't trust Trump or the West particularly. But mass faking numbers like this is common in China and very rare in the west. The west cheats in other ways...

[DiogenesKynikos]

> If Chinas numbers are accurate, then we are doing this all for nothing, the total global deathtoll will be less than a normal year's flu season.

How do you figure that? The lesson from China is that the way to keep the death toll low is to enact extreme public health interventions to stop transmission of the virus and suppress the epidemic. The lesson isn't, "Everything will be fine if we do nothing."

The reason fewer people have died in China is because fewer people have gotten sick in the first place. The way that happened was through lock-downs that were far stricter than anything implemented in the West (and a whole host of other measures, like regularly checking everyone's temperature and quarantining anyone with a fever).

[LatteLazy]

Per the Chinese government, only 4600 people have died in China, and they only have 83 cases left. So only 23k will die world wide. That's less than the normal number of seasonal flu. If you believe the Chinese numbers...

[DiogenesKynikos]

You just ignored everything I wrote and repeated the same statement. Re-read what I wrote above. What you're saying makes no logical sense.

[LatteLazy]

You haven't answered the original question I asked. Does anyone here actually believe the current Chinese numbers? 4600 dead?

Until people will actually comment on that, everything else is just he said she said.

[DiogenesKynikos]

You keep on repeating the nonsense argument that China's figures imply that only 23k people will die worldwide. When I explained exactly why that logical leap is absurd, you ignored me and repeated it again.

> Does anyone here actually believe the current Chinese numbers? 4600 dead?

I think that they are as reliable as the figures coming out of the United States. That is, they are probably in the right ballpark. As in the United States, there are probably certain categories of uncounted deaths (e.g., thousands of uncounted nursing home deaths in the US), but they probably do not change the overall numbers enough to qualitatively change any conclusions you'd draw.

Now that I've explicitly answered your question, please show some sign that you acknowledge that the logic leading from "only 4600 people have died in China" to "only 23k people will die worldwide" makes no sense whatsoever.