[Reelin]

Can an app not simply ask the user for, and subsequently be granted, the necessary permissions? At least on Android I had understood it to work that way in theory, although in practice perhaps it doesn't always behave ideally (https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/6068458?hl=en).

Edit: I see now that it's specifically iOS that doesn't provide for granting the required permissions. I find such lack of control over a device that one supposedly owns highly concerning at best.

[cheerlessbog]

Guess: many people would tap OK without thinking about it (they don’t understand or care what background means) then would be unhappy that their battery drains..

[Reelin]

It seems to me that restricting freedoms to combat ignorance is unlikely to have a desirable outcome. To your specific example, I suspect that bluntly warning that granting the permission has the potential to lead to significant loss of battery life would get even the most technically illiterate user's attention.

More generally, how are background streaming services supposed to work on the iPhone? Does Apple have to individually approve every app that wishes to do so (ex Spotify, Pandora, ...)?

[fhars]

No, they would just click anything that makes that dialog that stands between them and their goal of installing the app go away without reading the text and then be unhappy that their battery drains. Any design that relies on a confirmation dialog is fundamentally broken. Even technically competent users will read most confirmation dialogs as „Let me do what I want [Abort] [OK]“ no matter what you actually write there.

In many situations we may not have better solutions, but that doesn‘t change the fact that this is terrible.

[Reelin]

> Any design that relies on a confirmation dialog is fundamentally broken

I'm having trouble interpreting this in any way other than a claim that granting users control over their devices is a fundamentally broken idea. I won't dispute that users often choose to do dumb things in practice, but it seems the two of us have a fundamental disagreement in our underlying worldviews.

> Even technically competent users ... no matter what you actually write

I'd argue that such users aren't actually technically competent then, despite the high opinion they might have of themselves. On the other hand, perhaps the users are technically competent and it's actually the relevant software developers that have done a poor job of communicating? If an actual technically competent user is experiencing significant difficulties using a program, then perhaps the program doesn't work as well as the developers thought it did.

[simion314]

The issue is that because of some "bad" users you restrict all users. What I do when I designed a prompt dialog that gates a dangerous operation is make the user type something, yopu could have the user type a different thing so you can confirm he actually reads the prompt text so there are technical solutions, IMO the justification that Apple is taking your freedom to protect a subgroup of users is not the reality, the reality is that restrictions make Apple more money, if lifting the restrictions would make them more money you will see a lot of praise on how smart tech is behind Apple's dialog prompts that allow you to lift restrictions.