[mizay7]

The political discussion in this thread is fascinating. There are people advancing intelligent arguments about how the presidents podium remarks were flippant but basically on topic and that he wasn't telling people to actually drink bleach. While true, in my eyes it is obvious that he conflated sterilizing a surface with killing infection in a human and then started riffing on it.

It is incredibly strange and scary to me that not everyone is on the same page here. If you want to be generous you could say that the president was fatigued and had a 'brain fart' conflating the two. But this wasn't an issue with being articulate or not, or off the cuff or not, or how prescriptive he was. The man clearly thought that disinfecting surfaces relates to treating people. I find it terrifying that our leader could make such a mistake, especially at this stage of the pandemic.

[monocasa]

He's now said that "I was asking a sarcastic — and a very sarcastic question — to the reporters in the room about disinfectant on the inside"

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/494519-trump-say...

'It was just a joke, bro' has to be the lamest excuse.

[atomi]

Do not pity partisans, only consequence will force them to change.

[rumanator]

> I find it terrifying that our leader could make such a mistake, especially at this stage of the pandemic.

As an european citizen, I find it terrifying that the leader who is responsible for preserving NATO, and thus is the guardian of the Free World, shows such a poor lack of judgement.

[irrational]

Responsible for NATO? Isn’t this the same Trump that pulled funding for NATO and said he wants the USA to pull out of NATO?

[czzr]

The fascinating thing for me, reading this thread, is how smart people are tripping over themselves to justify obvious nonsense. It’s really amazing to watch this in real time.

[fellowniusmonk]

After all the effort they put in, making themselves look like shills trying conjure up post-hoc justifications for his idiocy and he just comes out and throws them all under the bus by claiming he was being "Sarcastic". Unreal.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-claims-his-comments-on-i...

[hyko]

Easily the worst U.S. president in history. I mean, say what you like about James Buchanan but I’m pretty certain he never suggested anyone INJECT THEMSELVES WITH DISINFECTANT!

[mizay7]

I dont think he suggested people inject themselves with disinfectant. That summary is what allows people to say that headlines are blown out of proportion and allows glossing over the real and only slightly more nuanced issue.

The man showcased profound misunderstanding, but he didn't prescribe lysol injections.

[hyko]

He absolutely is on record suggesting that injecting disinfectant would be a promising area of research, no summary required:

“I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute! And is there a way we can do something by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs... so it’d be interesting to check that.”

How are you going to check that injecting disinfectant into people won’t work against COVID-19 without injecting disinfectant into people?

He didn’t prescribe Lysol injections because he’s not a medical doctor and therefore not allowed to prescribe anything to anyone.

[Balgair]

Though the trials of lysol injections would not start in humans, they also would not start in mice, or in yeast, or at all. It is absurd to suggest anyone look into injecting any surface disinfectants into a living creature, let alone a human, let alone during a pandemic, let alone at the White House podium on a day the US had a 9/11's worth of deaths due to the virus in a single 24-hour time period.

[abakker]

Obviously, you use the Lysol like an inhaler. No need to inject. Just get Lysol to make those little asthma puffers, but in fresh rain scent. /s

[kube-system]

It does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.

[zer0n1ght]

Almost the entire briefing was about UV light killing viruses. Ultraviolet light is classified as a non-chemical disinfectant, and Trump was asking if we can bring it into the body. In his comment he said "The whole concept of the light that kills under one minute, thats pretty powerful".

[adamiscool8]

The thought process of "we can disinfect surfaces why not people" is essentially how germ theory and antiseptics were discovered. It's incredibly strange and scary to me how this form of thinking is now pathologized.

[djaque]

Just following up on this thread in case there was any doubt about the consequences of the presidents actions: " NYC Poison Control Calls for Bleach, Lysol Double After Trump Disinfectant Comment" [1]

[1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-poison-control-cal...

[djaque]

Mistake or not and sarcasm or not, it's clear what people interpreted his statements as meaning. His words prompted medical officials and Lysol to release statements about not drinking disinfectants and state agencies are reporting people calling in about using it as a potential treatment for Covid-19 [1-3]. Trump has also now back-stepped and says it was a "Prank on Reporters just to see what would happen" [4].

I've also got to admit (at the risk of getting caught up in all of these political posts) that I find it strange that the parent article is on the front page. When I read the title (note: I didn't know about the Trump press conference at the time and had to look it up after seeing the comments in this thread) I actual thought to myself: "that sounds like a quack cure, you can't disinfect blood". Interestingly there does seem to be some effectiveness to the therapy, although for different reasons than disinfection.

Now that I know the political connection, however, what is upsetting to me is that the reason this post appears to be on the front page isn't because of some genuine evidence based interest in this therapy option, but instead to cover for the president's strange assertions about sterilizing blood. This includes quotes such as using "tremendous ultraviolet" or "just very powerful light" inside the body to kill the virus. It's the selective focus on the this one section of a speech that verbatim included advocacy for taking disinfectants internally (again, regardless of intention that's how people read it).

Research doesn't mean pulling out the one article that supports what you want to believe. It means putting in the time and effort to understand the ensemble of views on a subject and it's pretty clear that this UV therapy, although interesting, is some far out on left field technique. Even though it has some some efficacy, just as stuff like acupuncture and chiropractic therapy is evidence based, it's use for something like Covid-19 seems questionable.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-52411706

[3] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...

[4] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/trump-my-idea-to-inj...

[djaque]

Ok, it turns out that my skeptic alarm wasn't wrong on this. It looks like there's a whole cottage industry of people who are peddling non-FDA-approved UV blood irradiation therapy and ozone therapy as a cure-all for everything from depression to AIDS. It goes by the name "BioPhotonic Therapy" if you do some googling. There's probably a good reason why nobody besides "alternative medicine" providers practice this stuff [1].

[1] https://health.wusf.usf.edu/post/despite-skeptics-alternativ...

[Confiks]

I appreciate your analysis, but "the reason this post appears to be on the front page" is not necessarily to "cover for the president's strange assertions about sterilizing blood". It has sparked some nuanced discussion about the article – for example about the oxidative stress being the main driver – that slowly floats to the top and can clarify other discussions elsewhere.

In that way it's good that submissions only contain the article URLs, as the merit of the article is discussed, not the submission.

[tmaly]

You could also argue that this was a use of an analogy to explain a complex topic to the average joe that might be watching the press conference.

When I was teaching 1st graders about programming, I had to simplify many concepts and using physical objects to explain abstract ideas.

[mizay7]

You could argue that, but in that case my inclination would be that you are arguing in bad faith or we live in different realities. There was nothing about that speech which suggested a didactic presentation to me. Like i said in the parent, it seems very obvious that at the moment of speaking he was unable to differentiate between disinfecting surfaces and anti-viral therapy. Something that any adult of middling education should be able to do.

[tmaly]

I am not so sure here. He does tend to use visual imagery in his speech.

Look at how he talks about the wall on the Southern border. I cannot say for certain what was meant here.

Its really hard to know what the intent is without being able to read someone's mind.

[splitrocket]

Read about stochastic terrorism.

Also, in a crisis situation like this, it is deeply irresponsible to be even slightly confusing.

And now, we have this: https://twitter.com/MDMEMA/status/1253721510570844162

[tmaly]

quite an echo chamber on this one