[nbabitskiy]

It is absolutely unacceptable, that's why 2/3 answers to this comment so far use martial metaphors. It violates not the liberty of young men, who have every right to be reckless and volunteer, but integrity of the scientific community.

If the Oxford researchers made trials on Syrian kids in a refugee camp, in exchange for $100, I suppose more people would see a problem here.

[tim333]

I'd be willing to do it. It could save thousands or lives. Which part to you object to? Enthusiastic volunteers being able to choose to take a risk? The world has become far too nanny state and arse covering in my opinion.

I find the attitude puzzling that people are willing to value vague abstractions like "integrity of the community" over thousands of lives.

[nbabitskiy]

I agree with everything you say. If a rogue MD in a nanny state will talk you into a challenge trial, - by all means, let him do it and face the consequences (hopefully, tough). But let's not pretend, that it would be an informed consent.

The reason for the vaccine research protocol we're settled on, is the ubiquity of wanna-be Pasteurs, and dearth of the real ones.

On a separate note. We have deprived ourselves of basic human rights under the premise, that lives are worth any economic outcome of shut down. Where I live, premeditated spreading of the Covid is considered by law an act of terrorism. Officially vetted challenge trials just don't add up.

[tim333]

Yeah I'll give you you need informed consent and some common sense about the whole thing.

[benchaney]

How is the integrity of the scientific community harmed?

[apsec112]

Refugee kids can't give informed consent.

[nbabitskiy]

Well, kids over 18 can give consent. And no one can give an informed consent to a challenge trial at this point. If you and I stole the vaccine, injected it, and would try to get infected, as an amateur scientific endeavor, it would be perfectly ok. If an MD would inform us, that she "feels optimistic", in order to get a consent, she has no business being a researcher.

[SpicyLemonZest]

It's going to harm the integrity of the scientific community a lot more once the world starts counting up the lives human challenge trials could have saved.