[Bayart]

>I'm from Italy and here we are taught a linear history shooting like a bullet from the Romans to Renaissance (mostly glossing over the Middle Ages), and that has important political consequences in what it means to identify as an Italian.

As a Frenchman I have always found Italians identifying so strongly to Romans a bit creepy. I've had very heated conversations with people who wouldn't balk from the notion that « they » had conquered Europe at a time « we » lived in trees (notwithstanding Gaul having cities upwards of 40k inhabitants). Italy hasn't been Roman for much longer than Spain or Gaul and the entire peninsula nearly had a civilization « hard reset » with the utter ravage of the Gothic wars and Justinian's plague.

Things might have been simpler if we had kept the medieval demonym and referred to Italians as « Lombards ».

[pmontra]

Yep, you're right. We were taught tiny details of the rise of Rome, when it was a little village, and Julius Caesar was a hero. Then I grew up and realized that nowadays he would be a war criminal and at best one of those guys longing to be president for life. For sure the ancestors of the people living in today France were not happy to have his armies in their country back then.

[carlob]

And most French I know have this weird notion they somehow won WWII because the true French government was in London ;)

[S4M]

I am French and I don't think that at all, nor do I know anybody who thinks like that.

[carlob]

First of all there is a winky face in my message, it's interesting how a message in jest can trigger nationalistic sentiments (downvotes in this case).

In all seriousness though, the 8th of May is still celebrated with victory parades throughout the country.

You can't just deny France also has some trouble remembering their history. Think of how long Kubrick's Paths of Glory was banned...

[S4M]

First, I am not the one who downvoted you. My reply was more about giving an anecdote countering yours, than being a nationalist.

About France remembering its history, it's true that for a long time some things were hidden, but in 1995 (I think) the then President Jacques Chirac said that France should own the crimes commited by the Vichy government.

I am not saying that every bad deed done by France is not hidden somewhere, but some efforts were made by the French to reconcile with their history.

[carlob]

I didn't say you downvoted me and I'm sure you didn't, though a couple of people must have...

Thus said I'm not denying that in most places a decently educated person knows about the darker side of history of their country. My point is just that history as it is taught in high schools is a narrative that is (also) used to justify a sentiment of national pride.

Italy has ancient Rome and the Renaissance, Greece has ancient Greece, Ukraine has Kievan Rus', and just like those France has its own founding myths, be it Charlemagne, Napoleon, De Gaulle, or the Republican ideals...