[lpah4all]

Vaccines are an absolutely revolutionary technology.

That said, mixing profit with essential medical technology is a recipe for failure.

The first way to make something more profitable is to cut costs.

What corners do these corps cut to up their margins? And how does that decrease health outcomes for some percent of the population?

The bottom-line is that no for-profit corp can be trusted with your health.

Vaccines must be developed and distributed by the government for the benefit of all human beings. Sure, we need to minimize cost but not to enrich the select few wealthy enough to be investors in the first place. If there is a surplus (profit), that money gets invested right back into R&D. No pharma-bros needed or wanted.

I am pro-vaccine and anti-for-profit-corps.

Yes, my kids are vaxed for measles and a few others, but, no, I did not go in for the entire schedule, which is frankly insane. Just compare our vax schedule in America to what they do in Europe. It's maybe 2x. And, yes, we will all get a Covid vax as soon as it is available.

But, remember, selling three of something (ETA: instead of two) that has a little margin gives you a 50% increase in profit. B-School types don't care that that third dose might be too much; besides, they can find/fund researchers to goal-seek safety for that extra 50%.

And, yes, vax is big business, just not as big as other meds.

And, yes, anti-vaxxers piss me off, too, the fucking anti-science morons. But people who trust for-profit corps with their health are stupid marks.

[cbg0]

> The bottom-line is that no for-profit corp can be trusted with your health.

You've reached this so-called "bottom line" very quickly without providing actual evidence to support your statement.

[lpah4all]

Uhh, google "opioid epidemic".

Or, perhaps "cancer-causing agents in prescription drugs" (caused by not testing their processes for unwanted by-products making their way into the medicines).

Or, that airbag manufacturer or the car manufacturers who don't provide a safety feature because the bean counters declare that so long as there are less than ten successful lawsuits, the profit will be more if they leave it out, no matter how many people die in the process. Google "Goodyear RV tires".

Or the disaster in Bhopal India.

What about these piles of mercury-laden coal ash piled next to our river because of the coal-burning plant next to it?

And you think the pesticide producers are not cherry-picking their researchers to goal-seek?

Now, do your research.

[BrandoElFollito]

> Just compare our vax schedule in America to what they do in Europe. It's maybe 2x

Looks pretty similar to me: https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h5966/infographic

[AshamedCaptain]

There's something very wrong in your message, practically the same bias as the vaccine "denialists".

First you establish your order of trust as:

1. Government

2. For-profit-corporations

Then you acknowledge that your actual practisting order of trust is:

1. Your gut (why is "the entire schedule frankly insane"?)

2. European Governments

3. Your American Government

The later ranking is not justified at all by your early statements.

If you trust governments better than corporations as a matter of choice, fine. It may actually be a sensible choice in this bullshit world. If you trust your gut more than governments fine, it may also be a sensible choice, even.

However, be consistent, and realize your biases.

[lpah4all]

Your biases are so ingrained you don't even realize them.

Yes, I am biased against for-profit corps. Which one, especially among the pharmas, do you trust?

No, this is not my gut, this is my experience with for-profit corps and my knowing their past and recent history.

And you say there is something wrong with my message, but you did not state one single fact to argue. You are the one arguing from your gut and your belief that our govt and for-profit corps give a shit about anything other than your money. They only care that you can't prove the tort.

And who said I trust governments? You did. I didn't say that shit. I said our government should run these programs, but what I didn't say was that we need governments made up of actual "public servants", not the corrupt, self-dealing lying pieces of shit that take a boatload of money from corps of all kinds, the bigger the cozier.

Your thinking you are so smart is getting in the way of your education.

[secstate]

I'm in the same boat as OP. The entire childhood vaccination schedule is insane because it lacks longitudinal studies demonstrating effectiveness and safety.

Why is varicella in the schedule? The plague upon our house that is chicken pox will hopefully be annihilated one day, only to reappear in a much more painful form later in life as shingles because you need a constant re-up of the varicella vaccine to keep it at bay. What the actual fuck is going on here and who controls the schedule?

[lpah4all]

Regulatory capture and goal-seeking driven by profit-seeking B-school acolytes.

[CydeWeys]

What costs do you think were cut? Which specific vaccines do you think do more harm than good?

[lpah4all]

The use of thimerosol is solely to increase shelf-life. Keeping stock from expiring (thus being unsellable) is a fundamental B-school technique for controlling costs.

Anyone with any knowledge of human physiology knows injecting any form of mercury into the blood of newborns and the pregnant is insane. There is no more toxic element than mercury.

And hand-picked and funded goal-seeking researchers are not hard to find, if you've been following the "reproducibility problem" these past few years.

They don't care so long as you can't prove the tort.

[epistasis]

Do you still buy food from for-profit farmers? Clothes? Housing?

These are all essentials too, that are far less regulated than drug production, and with equal chance for harm or death.

And there are plenty of "farmer-bro" libertarians out there, including in your local organic farmers market, out there just to seek profit and ask you to get rid of the minimal regulations on them and to go back to a system of just trusting your farmer and the transaction (back in the 2000s Michael Pollan's book profiled one guy of that sort).

The people who are producing vaccines don't typically make tons of profit on them. Most are cheap, ubiquitous, except for some new ones that took a long time to develop. They are not huge money makers, and neither are organic beets, but they are business none the less so people make them.

> But people who trust for-profit corps with their health are stupid marks.

Are you a stupid mark for trusting Whole Foods. A huge for-profit company, for not making them sick?

Are you a stupid mark for trusting the regulatory system that ensures safety?

There's so much basic wrongness going on here that shows that you have just bought anti-vaxxer nonsense, hook like and sinker. How much good and how much harm has happened because you, as a "stupid mark," trusted for-profit healthcare companies with MMR? Why that one and not others? Too mcubprofit in other vaccines? Too much "risk"?

You say that you are not an anti-vaxxer yet you perpetuate exactly the same flawed lies that they tell themselves in order to justify endangering their own children and others' health. It's a weird contradiction.

(And for the record, I'm anti-libertarian, but I will still buy from the farmers market, not because I accept their ideology, or because I want to give them profits, but because I trust the rest of the system. I can transact with someone without adopting their ideology.)

[lpah4all]

>> The people who are producing vaccines don't typically make tons of profit on them.

You have not done your research.

>> Are you a stupid mark for trusting the regulatory system that ensures safety?

Why do you assume I trust them? I damn sure didn't say it.

In theory gov't would regulate pharma corps. How's that working out for the opioids?

You should read Dunning & Kruger, you're not in the group you think you are, and I know which group you're in.

Then you should read my post again, this time for comprehension.