[yters]

Well, communism is not indigenous to China. It is a western idea imported by western educated Chinese intellectuals, who then indoctrinated Mao.

Whether the western control is direct or indirect, it is indisputable that the CCP is not an indigenous movement. It is a product of western ideological imperialism.

As a very visual example, go travel around China, visiting areas with greater and lesser CCP control. The less the control, the more elements of traditional China are around. The greater the control, the more it looks like a replica of yet another Western metropolis.

I saw this very clearly when visiting Xinjing province near Tibet and hiking through the villages. The normal part of the village has traditional, hand made housing, beautiful craftsmenship, great food. Then, on the outskirts of the villages, were towering, empty apartment blocks. The CCP planned to move the villagers out of their traditional homes into these huge apartment blocks they could more easily control.

So, yes, most clearly the CCP is a product of the west, not ethnic Chinese culture.

[carapace]

Your earlier comment sounded to me like you were saying that current Western communist elites are somehow controlling the CCP, and that's why they are going along with "the corruption and subversion of Western institutions by the Chinese government." But that doesn't make sense to me because there aren't any Western communist elites anymore, are there?

But if you're just pointing out the Western origin of the foundations of Chinese Communism them, yes, I agree the whole thing could be seen, from the POV of the West, as being confronted with a kind of social/political prodigal son. I'm so used to thinking of communism as an Eastern thing, but you're right (again).

[yters]

There aren't any obvious communist elites, but there is a weird whitewashing of communism going on. And, a communist china fits the purposes of capitalist west quite well. So, I would say if there are western elite controlling China, they are doing it for personal gain, not ideological.

[carapace]

> There aren't any obvious communist elites, but there is a weird whitewashing of communism going on.

Well the CCP is stumping hard on the propaganda front. They've shoved the Dalai Lama out of the spot light, etc., and they're working hard to influence Western media, and IMO too many are happy to go along with that to make money. Don't get me started on tech companies. I just don't think that there's a lot of secretly pro-communists in the West.

> And, a communist china fits the purposes of capitalist west quite well.

How?

> So, I would say if there are western elite controlling China, they are doing it for personal gain, not ideological.

Ah but isn't that true of all elites globally? I'm not trying to "whataboutism" here, I just assume that most if not all elites are ideologically agnostic.

[yters]

The Chinese government seems more than happy to exploit its people for western money, up to strip mining their citizens' organs.