[czDev]

I live in San Francisco, and I voted for the recent sit-lie ordinance. I would've have done so had I not recently been working in the civic center area, and come face to face with the dirty reality of homelessness. The sidewalks smell like urine, people are belligerent and drunk or passed out often. I was punched in the face while waiting for a bus outside of work. A lot of the opposition to sit lie used the rallying cry "Sidewalks are for people". I agree; they're for me too. And I don't want a bunch of drunks sleeping on my sidewalks; dirtying them up

[linuxhansl]

So you want homeless people to be jailed, because you like a clean side-walk? I find that... Strange.

I walk by a typical homeless sleeping spot every morning, and while I do not enjoy the smell, my first reaction is to wonder: Why are these people out here, why do they have no home, why is there no toilette for them to use, etc, etc?

How about donating some money to groups like Glide and other organizations that help the homeless? That's what I do.

[rtra]

Why indeed. Where I live we have vacant free shelters where one can get a bed, a shower and a meal, and yet there are those who absolutely insist in pan handling for their next bottle. A sad picture.

[gnosis]

Have you ever spent a night in a shelter?

More to the point, have you ever been mentally ill and spent weeks, months, or even years in shelters?

[rtra]

I haven't done any of those things. Yet I'd wage it would be better to live on a shelter than on the streets, unless one has some serious psychological demons, in which case an hospital with specialized care should be preferable.

[phlux]

>...absolutely insist in pan handling for their next bottle

What assholes! I mean, I know plenty of people who have the audacity to work in high tech to support their alcoholism!

[gnosis]

"I don't want a bunch of drunks sleeping on my sidewalks"

Who's sidewalks do you want them to sleep on?

What is your solution, exactly? Where are they to go?

[acabal]

I think SF is a bit of a strange case. I grew up and lived in the area for a long time. SF has the unfortunate confluence of very limited land, desirable living conditions that drive real estate prices sky-high, a core of super-wealthy people willing to pay those prices and more, and a culture of "hip-poverty" (think hippies and the kids you see today hanging out in Lower Haight) that lends itself to a more relaxed attitude towards the poor. Unlike cities with more land, there really is nowhere for people to go... just as you can't leave homeless on the street, you can't put them out on a raft in the bay. And buying the land for shelters is likely prohibitively expensive.

It's a homeless situation that I think is a little more complex than many other big cities face, and I don't know what the right answer to it is. But if people truly have no other place to go than the Civic Center sidewalks, I'd let them lie there for want of a better solution myself, just because the situation in SF is so particular.

Anyway, just kind of musing out loud.

[nickbp]

Another possible contributing factor: If I were homeless, I'd try to go somewhere with mild weather.

[thecoffman]

Couldn't agree more. One of my biggest complaints about living in SF was the endless panhandling, the odor, and the general sketchiness that comes from having homeless people everywhere. I'm very "live and let live" but everyone has a line - and SF is well past that point for me. I've spent plenty of time in other big cities and the problem is nowhere near as bad. I don't know what the solution should be, it isn't an easy problem to fix - but the current situation isn't workable. At least not for me.

[nickbp]

Hey, welcome to SF. Take the good with the bad.

[czDev]

that "would've" should be a "wouldn't"

[phlux]

I live in SF too, and I don't think that someone who was siting or lying down punch you in the face. They were probably standing when they punched you.

We should have a law against standing on a sidewalk. I mean, you could get punched in the face! for crying out loud.

Additionally, I heard when SFPD was on the NPR promoting the ordinance as a TOOL that SFPD needed - I dont think criminalizing shit should be seen as a tool.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I had walked out of Macy's in Union square, and there were protesters sitting right in front of the doors to Macy's protesting the anti-sit/lie law.

I said to them "Don't you think sitting in front of the doors and blocking access to the building works AGAINST your cause!"

Sure, I don't agree with making more laws to criminalize anything - we are enough of a police state already - but seriously, sitting in front of a business to call attention for your rights to sit is retarded!