[notyourday]

> Quarantine and testing is the way to fight the virus and be able to return to the normal as soon as possible.

What you are describing is a way to handle flare ups and it only works in police states. At the current time the only way to fight viruses is with vaccines. It is extremely unfortunate that even during this pandemic our experts keep avoiding repeating this.

[eecc]

Oh come on, please stop this “it only works in police states” rhetoric. It’s not true, nor is the slippery slope argument.

Asking people to undergo testing and voluntary quarantine is perfectly within democratic bounds of civic duty and anyone with a iota of ethic is more than willing to collaborate. It’s also fair for a democratic society to compensate for any economic loss incurred.

It’s not necessary to use the iron fist except for the most egregiously anti-social deniers, but that’s the same as with the neighbors that refuse to turn down the volume of their music after 24:00

[notyourday]

> Oh come on, please stop this “it only works in police states” rhetoric. It’s not true, nor is the slippery slope argument.

Vietnam is a police state. Singapore is a police state. South Korea is a police state. China is a police state. HK is a police state.

> Asking people to undergo testing and voluntary quarantine is perfectly within democratic bounds of civic duty and anyone with a iota of ethic is more than willing to collaborate.

Asking for a voluntary quarantine is different from quarantining people. US states have asked people to voluntarily quarantine. The argument that is being offered is that voluntary quarantine is not enough.

> It’s not necessary to use the iron fist except for the most egregiously anti-social deniers, but that’s the same as with the neighbors that refuse to turn down the volume of their music after 24:00

It is a civil and not a criminal violation.

[rjzzleep]

> Vietnam is a police state. Singapore is a police state. South Korea is a police state. China is a police state. HK is a police state.

Taiwan is not.

I'm not Taiwanese but one sentence I used to hear when I was little was:

"The extent of your personal freedom goes as far as it starts endangering other peoples personal liberties"

The reason why the US and Germany are resorting to police state techniques is because:

1. The countries have been pushing there boundaries for at least a decade now and this is the perfect opportunity to use.

2. Even though Germans are happy to police you crossing a red light in the middle of the night, there is no sense of communal unity in society and there is even less trust in Government because there is zero transparency in communication. Basically the Government assumes everyone besides them is an idiot. Social shaming is the weapon of choice in Taiwan.

[notyourday]

For practical purposes Taiwan is a police state which is rather understandable considering that its neighbor thinks it is a rogue province.

Neither US nor Germany resorted to police state techniques. In a set of the Western democracies only France is getting close to it.

[lbeltrame]

Vaccines might not work. There are four at this point being studied in humans (everything else is preclinical), with three of them just in phase 1, that means testing safety, and not yet efficacy. We don't yet know whether they will work, or if the immunity will last long enough.

We need drugs before vaccines, to be able to treat the disease and/or its sympthoms and hopefully make sure patients don't end up in ICUs.

[notyourday]

> Vaccines might not work.

That's not the point I am making. The only solution to virus spreading is immunity. It can either come from a vaccine or it can come from infections themselves. This virus falls within a virus category.

Should the population not be immune to the virus, the flare ups will occur.

> We need drugs before vaccines, to be able to treat the disease and/or its sympthoms and hopefully make sure patients don't end up in ICUs

That's managing flare ups. Look at measles in non-vaccinated pockets of NYS:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2019/09/us-measl...

The immunity rate (mostly via vaccination) for measles in the US is over 91%. The immunity rate for COVID-19 in the US would be a percentage of people who were infected since there's no vaccine.

[JumpCrisscross]

> It can either come from a vaccine or it can come from infections themselves

It is unclear whether Covid-19 confers SARS-CoV-2 immunity. There are conflicting data, with some for future immunity out of China and Germany and some against out of Korea [1].

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-09/coronavir...