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by EarthIsHome 2260 days ago
What civil liberties are you afraid of eliminating in a crisis like this?
5 comments

Not saying any of these are going to happen, but some possibilities include: (To be clear, I'm just spitballing some fiction for parable use only.)

1. Police taking biological samples as a matter of course, even after the crisis. A sneaky politician or official manages to turn this in to DNA sample collection, maybe by sequencing swabs on the side to "catch criminals." Nobody stops it because everyone is focused on the virus.

2. Local governments end up with expanded power to shut down businesses, this eventually gets abused for some kind of extortion in a small town somewhere.

3. Police gain generalized "indefinite detention" powers instead of specific "court-ordered quarantine" powers in some jurisdictions, creating a ticking time bomb set to explode the first time a mayor wants to get rid of a protester.

4. Efforts to stamp out counterproductive conspiracy theories result in legal and bureaucratic infrastructure which sits around and is eventually used to suppress a very productive conspiracy theory.

5. Playing on the above, Google builds a system to delete every video that says 5G and COVID-19 are linked. This is eventually used to delete every video that suggests Darkriver Mercenaries Inc. and the scandal in Kumran are linked.

All of these cases share one thing in common: a bad, over-generalized law gets passed because legislators are panicking and not taking the time to think about civil liberties. The virus spreads fast, but not so fast that you can't take the time to legislate effectively.

The idea that freedom depends on tens of thousands dying from needless incompetence is very demonstrative of why America is such a mess in general right now.
Here's the thing - you really don't know until you're asked to give them up, and it's usually implied that you will only be giving them up for the duration of the crisis, but in reality you hardly ever get them back. This is how they get chipped away over time, so an abundance of caution must be used when deciding what you're will to give up, even during a crisis.
17,000 dead Americans in this circumstance is not a pittance of caution let alone an abundance
It's the abundance of caution that's kept it so low.
Those willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither.
>Those willing to trade liberty for security deserve neither.

That's a thought terminating cliche, not a response, as well as a complete misinterpretation of Ben Franklin's intent[0], thus not even a valid argument from authority.

[0]https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

Both the right of assembly and the right to bear arms have been repeatedly infringed.

For example in CA: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-24/l-a-coun...

No rights are absolute. Your right of free speech famously has limits; "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" is prohibited.

Temporarily closing gun shops, like shops for anything else not required for daily life, is absolutely reasonable.

If you claim that guns are required for daily life, that says more about your country than any other point here (and not in a good way).

> No rights are absolute. Your right of free speech famously has limits; "shouting fire in a crowded theatre" is prohibited.

Thats a terrible analogy as it’s not a partial limit that’s being applied here. It is an absolute removal. If a citizen is not allowed to create their own firearms or order them by mail, closing local stores is a total elimination of that right.

> Temporarily closing gun shops, like shops for anything else not required for daily life, is absolutely reasonable.

Says you. Your personal opinion of which constitutional rights are required for daily life does not dictate which ones others enjoy.

> If you claim that guns are required for daily life, that says more about your country than any other point here (and not in a good way).

You could make the same facetious statements about the 1st, 4th or 8th amendments as well.

Please don't go into nationalistic flamebait. It just leads to worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html