[dev_north_east]

> albeit well over 300 years later, and as further proof that the Irish have perhaps the longest memories in the world.

Oh right. At what point do historical figures get a free pass on bringing up their bad doings?

And by bad doings, we're talking deaths in the hundreds of thousands, enforced slavery etc.

[LongMemory]

Yeah, I am Irish and I think that patriotism is a disease. But even so, historical figures who have reputations for ethnic cleansing and genocide [1] should not be forgotten OR forgiven.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Irelan...

[LatteLazy]

Out of interest, how is Cromwell taught in Irish schools and what do they say about the causes of the war?

[growlist]

Still waiting for my reparations from the Normans.

[handojin]

Fagamid suid mar a ta se

[ZanyProgrammer]

“Irish slavery” is usually a sign someone is a racist asshole who has no idea what they’re talking about.

[ploika]

This is an article about Oliver Cromwell, where the author completely brushes off the atrocities he committed in Ireland.

You are correct that as well as all the murder and disenfranchisement and land confiscation, it was only indentured servitude (in Caribbean plantations, where the servants often died before their term of servitude was complete) and not chattel slavery.

But that's not really enough to accuse people of being racist assholes.

[dev_north_east]

I'm not American and have no interest in that side of stuff. Keep your partisan political terms and debates to yourselves.

Call them forced to migrate, indented servants or whatever makes yourself feel good. I'll stick with the accurate term for such.

Edit: Sorry for being a dick, I made assumptions there.

[fsloth]

Racist? Toward whom, Irish? I'm sorry, not from the anglosaxon world, I know britain put Ireland under the boot centuries ago, but is calling all of that's effects a form of enslavement deragotary toward Irish?

[rsynnott]

There's a frequent claim, especially amongst the American far-right, that chattel slavery of Irish people was a common thing (it wasn't, outside isolated cases, generally of non-white Irish people eg https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/an-irish-slave-in-antigua-7...), and that this somehow shows that slavery isn't a factor in the modern socioeconomic condition of black people in the US (because Irish people in the US had better socioeconomic outcomes).

In reality, indentured servitude of Irish people (and English people) was common in the early colonisation of America. This would be considered _modern_ slavery, colloquially (the term slavery is in a modern context used for all unfree labour), but it wasn't _chattel_ slavery, and was pretty dramatically different from chattel slavery. In addition, most Irish people immigrated to the America in the 19th century as free immigrants.

The Irish slavery myth isn't inherently racist (though it is inherently ahistorical), but it is often used as a racist talking point.

Much more context here: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-iris... ; tldr; it's complicated.

By the way, it's worth noting that claims of widespread Irish chattel slavery are almost exclusively an American thing. Here in Ireland history classes etc give a more accurate impression of it. Cromwell engaged in in forced population displacement and unfree labour in Ireland (and there's certainly a case that he engaged in genocide), but not chattel slavery. Think more Stalin than Caesar.

[fsloth]

Thanks. So it's a term that's taken its own life in US, and is not itself offensive, but labels the user as a member of one faction in the current US culture wars.

Even if one was speaking only about Irish history without any link to US.

Sigh.

[rsynnott]

It's a term that, as far as anyone can see, _originated_ in the US.

[fsloth]

Thanks, that clarifies why it's felt to be such an odd thing.

[s_dev]

> has no idea what they’re talking about.

Funny -- because you've clearly misread something in the thread or think you're in another thread. This has nothing to do with "Irish Slavery".

You be sure to continue to pontificate who does and doesn't know what they're talking about though.

[coribuci]

> “Irish slavery” is usually a sign someone is a racist asshole who has no idea what they’re talking about.

So long for the praised HN guidelines.