[stormbeta]

While this is great news for my QC 35's, the newer Bose 700's have me extremely worried for the future of their devices.

Anyone who puts non-tactile touch controls on _headphones_ shouldn't be allowed to design electronics interfaces ever again.

The QC35 had it right with physical controls.

[anarazel]

> Anyone who puts non-tactile touch controls on _headphones_ shouldn't be allowed to design electronics interfaces ever again.

My QC35's died - probably not Bose's fault. Too old to be repaired, apparently. Got the 700's. And I seriously regret it. The fact that it's hard to get the "gestures" right is one thing. What's worse is that the controls trigger spuriously all the damn time.

They also semi-regularly just hang, make a somewhat high-pitched sound, and reboot. They regularly announce "bluetooth off", just after the announcement that a device disconnected. With multiple connected devices there's constant problems with only one of those being audible. Changes which.

[tkorri]

The physical buttons was the exact reason why I bought a pair of QC 35 II's even though Sony WH-1000XM3's were available and Bose QC700 had just been introduced.

I own a pair of Monster iSport Freedom 2's which have a touch control for volume and skipping, and oh boy is touch control a bad idea on headphones. For example when wearing the headphones under a hood, while outside in the rain, it sometimes registers rain as a touch action, so your volume or song changes suddenly. Also the touch control accurancy isn't very stellar indoor either.

So based on my experience, I gladly take physical buttons over touch controls, since for me touch controls are more like a gimmick than good usability.

[jiofih]

Did you actually try the Sony’s? That (rain activating touch) doesn’t happen. You can’t take your experience with a completely different product as universal truth.

[tkorri]

Yes, I've used the Sony's for a couple of hours, but I've never owned a pair. Couple of my colleagues have them and they seem to be happy with them.

My biggest issue with touch control is the user experience. That is, when it works flawlessly it's as good as physical buttons, but I rarely experience the same level of reliability with touch as with buttons.

If you have the Sony's and you're happy with them, then good for you. They're good headphones, just not the best ones for me.

[originalvichy]

As a person who lives in a cold country I got annoyed by the 1000XM3 touch controls pretty quickly. I am however happy to report that a year after the release you can update the firmware and disable touch controls.

[tkorri]

Actually, before buying my Bose headphones I seriously looked at the Sony's. I even googled for a way to disable the touch control on them. But the only thing I found was a video on YouTube for the previous model, which showed how to disassemble the headphones and disconnect a wire to achieve this.

But good for Sony for giving that choice to the user via a firmware update.

[joshvm]

Yep, I have the Sony WH-1000XM3s. They're fantastic headphones - really impressive given how awful the ANC was on a previous set of Sony headphones I had (MDR-ZX770BN).

However, the touch interface is bad. Swiping up/down is often confused for left/right, which is probably me swiping the wrong way, but it's not a natural motion. If I take the headphones off and put them around my neck, my chin often activates the headphones by mistake.

That said, I picked them up at an airport. I wore them with a mask on a 10 hour flight and I've never slept so well on a plane. That alone was worth the price and I can suffer the touch controls for now.

[jrockway]

I also have those headphones and I was super weirded out by the touch controls initially, but have found in practice that they are great. I think this is the one time ever that touch controls are better than physical buttons, in fact.

[zaidf]

I think QC 35s are better than 700s. The 700s are less portable (can’t fold and put it in my jacket) and contrary to how Bose positions it (that they’re more modern), they look more like call center headphones.

[DevoidSimo]

I'm not sure what those controls are like, but I've got some sennheiser PXC550s. They have a touch pad which is used for controls. All controls are either a tap on a wide area (the whole earpiece) or a swipe. This is both easy to do and intuitive. i.e. up/down for volume, foward/back for track selection. Done well I don't think not having a button is an issue.

[josteink]

> the newer Bose 700's have me extremely worried for the future of their devices

As another negative anecdote I was gifted one, and simply had to return it.

The acoustic performance was really just underwhelming.

I went back to my Beterdynamic DT-770 headset at a third of the price, and it sounds immensely better. It’s a night and day difference.

[jmiserez]

That was also the case with the QC25/35. With a proper amp the DT-770s sound better than almost any NC bluetooth headphones, it's a different category. That said, I'd recommend you give the Sony WH-1000XM2/3 a listen. They're not perfect, but the sound is much closer to the DT-770.

[macleginn]

I switched from QC 25 to DT-770 recently for similar reasons. DT-770 are also immensely more comfortable.

[m463]

I had an older Dell monitor with those touch-sensitive buttons and the one I recently bought has buttons.

So much more wonderful.

That said, Dell's button user interface sucks. The "user configurable buttons" revert at inopportune times. I set button 1 to select DP and button 2 to select HDMI. When I'm shutting down the HDMI system and the DP system is asleep, I frequently find myself in a scroll-up-down menu selecting an input.

What I think is that at hardware manufacturers the culture favors hardware design (think no-moving-parts buttons). Or maybe the good UI people are working at companies or departments where there is plenty of work to do, like frequent app redesign.

[andreareina]

Physical controls are exactly why I went with my current pair of headphones over the other ones available. It meant giving up active noise cancellation, but fortunately the passive reduction is enough for my purposes.

[jiofih]

The Sony WH has touch controls and they work quite well.

[SlowRobotAhead]

I have the 700s, the important controls are buttons. The capacitive interface is for mute, vol up/down, and next song, it’s not my first choice but really it works fine.

This is a non-issue.

Edit: lol; my opinions from months of first hand everyday use are wrong, and should be echo chamber hidden by people who have never used the product.

[anarazel]

I find pause/play to be super unreliable. Triggers accidentally (even just a warm sweater sometimes is enough), and other times not at all.

Not really important, but standing around and tapping on my headphone to trying and failing to pause the podcast I'm listening to feels pretty idiotic.

Edit: Have them since early October

[stormbeta]

Capacitive controls have zero place on any headphones, let alone ones as expensive as these. The fact that you're willing to live with it doesn't mean it's not still a terrible design.

And I consider all of those buttons to be pretty important - I use all of them regularly, including when I'm not right next to my phone.

I just hope the 700's are an aberration, and that Bose goes back to a more practical design next time.

[ddoolin]

Why not? I have had this pair for months and the touch controls work great. They could be physical buttons, but they aren't, and they still function near-perfect for me. I think you should give more reasons beyond just saying it's bad. I know most commenters on HN have a physical button fetish and in some cases it's probably warranted but not always.

[SlowRobotAhead]

> The fact that you're willing to live with it doesn't mean it's not still a terrible design.

Typical HN smugness.

One person who actually has the product, has used it for months, and has themselves designed capacitive gesture button circuits then went back to traditional buttons - says “they aren’t that bad, work fine”...

And a trove of people who have never used the product downvote and tell them they are wrong.

OK.

No; it’s not a terrible design. I’ve maybe twice had to repeat a gesture. It’s drag up/down for volume, tap for mute, and drag forward for skip song. It works fine. Where the hell do you get the opinion it’s a terrible design if you’ve never used them?

[Dylan16807]

They're not calling you wrong about your experience with the product. They are listening to you say "not that bad", and taking it as completely true. Then they are saying that "not that bad" is unacceptable in a product this expensive.

Or by slight analogy: You rate a product 4 out of 5 stars. If someone that hasn't used the product insists on a different rating, they're being smug and part of the negative trove you've described. But if someone just says "4 out of 5? Not good enough when other models are 5 out of 5." there is nothing wrong with that.

[SlowRobotAhead]

That’s a wildly inaccurate way to read my post. I rate the 700s as 5 out of 5.

[Dylan16807]

"not that bad" is still saying they're worse than normal buttons, even though it's a tiny amount, right?

You giving the overall product a 5/5 isn't the point I was trying to make. I was talking about your rating in the button category, sorry if that wasn't clear, and it was just an example number.

[Sargos]

>The capacitive interface is for mute, vol up/down, and next song

As a user of bluetooth headphones I am really struggling to think of a button not on that list that is important. The only thing that's really coming to mind is pause but maybe that's what you mean by mute?

Those are literally the most essential buttons and by definition you are mostly going to be touching them when the headphones are on your head where you can't physically see the buttons. This is not a great experience.

[SlowRobotAhead]

A. It already works well; it’s not important to bitch about capacitive buttons for the four motions that work. ESP when you don’t own the product and have actually used them. I don’t like capacitive buttons, but these are fine.

B. There is nothing you can’t do here with the phone itself. Volume up and down can be done without even looking at the phone. There is nothing that will stop you from enjoying the product even if you for some reason just refuse to accept the capacitive buttons aren’t trash.

[asdfasgasdgasdg]

What are the important controls on headphones if not volume and song skipping? Those are the ones I use the most.

[SlowRobotAhead]

Important as in “can I turn them on and have them work”. Everything vital is a button, four things that can be done with the phone can be done with touch.

Have you actually had a problem with the Bose capacitive gestures? Because I haven’t.

[asdfasgasdgasdg]

I don't own these headphones. I'm just reacting to your assertion that volume controls aren't important, which doesn't match my experience with my own headphones. (All my headphone buttons are hard buttons.)

[SlowRobotAhead]

> I don't own these headphones.

You and everyone else disagreeing with me. “Important” as I in “I can use them all day without ever using a gesture control”.

How are you going to disagree with me having never touched the product? You literally NEVER need to use the capacitive controls, all the VITAL things are buttons. Does that wording work better for you?

[asdfasgasdgasdg]

> How are you going to disagree with me having never touched the product?

You claimed that volume and skip controls weren't important ("the important controls are buttons ... capacitive interface is for ... vol up/down ..." implies volume controls aren't important). That is what I disagreed with. I don't need to have used a particular pair of headphones to know that volume and skip are important controls for me. Same way I don't need to have used a particular keyboard to know I value having an "e" key.

[dvirsky]

Been using the 700 since they came out, I actually really like the touch interface. Skipping is a bit iffy but volume and pause work well, and it's very handy when I'm working out or doing the dishes, and I don't need to fiddle around with buttons.

[SlowRobotAhead]

I’m blown away with how many people here haven’t used them and are telling me I’m wrong that the capacitive are optional and do work just fine.