[modeless]

> Would you say that no desktop app that saves its key can ever qualify as end-to-end encrypted?

I would say that no app can qualify as end-to-end encrypted if a large fraction of users send their data to the maker of the app in a form that can be decrypted by the maker of the app, regardless of the reason.

[Dylan16807]

If iMessage was made by a third party and worked exactly the same then you'd have no objection to calling it end-to-end encrypted?

[modeless]

No. This is a necessary condition for being end-to-end encrypted, not a sufficient one. But iMessage doesn't meet it.

[Dylan16807]

Okay, so if I can't guess your point of view, then it would really help if you would answer the question I asked about desktop apps.