[empath75]

> One engineering challenge is that the brain's chemical environment can cause many plastics to gradually deteriorate. Another challenge to chronic electrode implants is the inflammatory reaction to brain implants. Transmission of chemical messengers via neurons is impeded by a barrier-forming glial scar that occurs within weeks after insertion followed by progressive neurodegeneration, attenuating signal sensitivity. Furthermore, the thin electrodes which Neuralink uses, are more likely to break than thicker electrodes, and currently cannot be removed when broken or when rendered useless after glial scar forming.

Yeah, you're not putting that in my brain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuralink

[2008guy]

The inflammation and damage is seen in traditional arrays that are large and rigid. A thread with low enough moment of inertia will likely not cause as much damage. And the damage is only important if you put the electrodes in an important place... we currently screw two giant lag screws into people’s heads and call it “deep brain stimulation” so I feel optimistic about the long game. But you’d still be right to be wary. And if I had it my way, this technology would never be allowed to exist at all...

[stainforth]

Can you continue about your opposition to it existing?

[salawat]

It's a social crisis waiting to happen, especially if you can end up decoding more than just what someone uses their speech centers to articulate.

This is invasive to the extreme, and seems to open the door for violations of people's intimate thoughts down the road.

You may not think about it much now, but if you pay any attention to things like intrusive thoughts, or even have to deal with carefully maintaining a public face in the workplace, it should not be difficult to realize why these technologies are legitimately dangerous even as read only systems.

The real nightmare begins when you finally get fed up with Read-Only and figure out how to write in order to potentially mutate mental state.

I'm normally pretty forward-thinking in terms of embracing the March of technological progress. However, the last decade or so has shown we as a society have had our grasp exceed our socio/ethical/moral framework for using it responsibly; and the potential abuse a full read/write neural interface would enable is one of the few things that has managed to attain a "full-stop" in my personal socio-ethical-moral framework.

Not to sound like that an adult, but we're just not ready.

Before anyone points out that the same moral outrage probably occurred with the printing press; there is a big damn difference between changing someone's mind through pamphlets, and having a direct link to the limbic system to tickle on a whim. We do a very bad job of correctly estimating the long-term effects of technological advancement; just look at how destructive targeted advertising has been.

I haven't reached my conclusion on an existing preconception/predisposition either. I used to be massively for this particular advancement. Only through a long time spent reflecting on it has my viewpoint done a 180.

I'm aware of all of the positive applications for the handicap, brain-locked, and paralyzed; but I'm still reluctant to consider embracing it for their sake when I've seen how prone to taking a crowbar to a minor exception/precedent our legal system is.

Maybe I've just been in the industry long enough not to trust tech people to keep society's overall well-being and stability at heart. Maybe I'm becoming a luddic coward as I get older. I don't know, and I ask myself if I'm not being unreasonable every day. The answer hasn't changed though in a long while, even though I do keep trying to seek out opportunities to challenge it.

I hope that helps, and doesn't make me sound like too much of a nut.

[IdiocyInAction]

> Before anyone points out that the same moral outrage probably occurred with the printing press; there is a big damn difference between changing someone's mind through pamphlets, and having a direct link to the limbic system to tickle on a whim.

I've recently read a short story from Ted Chiang likened the development of writing to a fundamental cybernetic enhancement of the brain. I found it to be quite enlightening, as I never thought of how writing changes how we see ourselves and the environment. Our memories are imperfect and inaccurate and amplify biases we have, while writing loses much less information.

> just look at how destructive targeted advertising has been

Can you elaborate? Targeted advertising doesn't even make my top 100 of destructive technologies.

[dandelo1953]

Instead of thinking of advertising as "technology" you might want to look into the military-esque research that brought it into the free market. Just like the internet, psyops was first destructed and formalized by people that value information over influence. As only one will beget the other with any statistical certainty.

[salawat]

Targeted advertising in my lifetime has gone from staging ads for kitchen appliances on daytime TV channels or in magazines for housewives to a bunch of friends getting together with their cell phones, talking about a one off odd topic, and then finding ads pop up on that topic in the next week.

To clarify: we've gone from general audience profiling, to employment of broadband sensors for surreptitious collection of data from which to make ad serving decisions. There also exist patents for installing microphones for responding to user's screaming a brand name at a TV to skip a commercial, and the practice of frame sampling of viewed content from SmartTV's. These intrusions into personal privacy come purely for the benefit of forwarding the interests of these ad servers, which also creates a vulnerability in terms of the fact that your digital footprint is available to anyone else interested in paying or requesting to be able to use it. You can't have that granular ad targeting without implementation of further surveillance capabilities.

Furthermore, there are additional consequences in that filter bubbles are created. Without you being aware, the advertising industry by default will attempt to skew your overall experience toward what they think you want to see rather than what is actually out there, or what you ask for. These algorithms allowed to run unchecked, without instilling an innoculative knowledge of the tendency of these systems to shepherd one right off the reservation given enough time, leads to things where we throw around phrases likening our society to being "post-truth", and have actually recorded multiple instances of widespread population level sentiment engineering.

So we"e garbage binned any semblance of common worldview, and invited Orwellian tiers of data collection into our lives so that other people can stand a chance at maybe serving us an ad we weren't even actively looking for in the hopes of modifying our behavvior to make a purchase happen so that they can generate revenue off of our eyeballs and content creation.

Make no mistake. Targeted advertising is a blight. It's one of those things that sounds reasonable, innocent, and possibly even helpful on the surface; but quickly sours once you start digging into the details that make it happen.

I understand some people may feel they get value out of such an arrangement; that having that ad pop up at that time genuinely makes their life easier. I ask the followi ng, however: has an ad ever taught you anything that dedicated research, and purposeful exercise of your will to purchase couldn't teach you? Has your experience searching and trying to share information online not been adversely effected in that all people's searches of the same terms have no real consistent base anymore? The answer for me in both cases is "no". Throw in the fact that if I don't regularly clean out every last trace of client side state, my wanderings through cyberspace are painstakingly mapped and integrated by an industry hell bent on coaxing Every last shred of potential value out of my mere existence with no regard for the dangers of accumulating all that data in one place.

Nowadays, you have rumblings that we should be using these technical solutions as the basis of social/political policy, and half the people making the assertion one way aren't looking at the whole picture.

I don't want the world to time-freeze at early 2000's technology by a long shot. Let me be clear on that. I do however, believe we need to seriously take a look at our capabilities, and work on creating a cohesive, widespread set of ethic/moral dicta that jive with what we purport our most valued cultural aspects are as a society. Yes, I understand that may mean converging to things I don't agree with; and that's fine. I just want as many people as possible to have the whole picture; and I don't think that right now that is actually the case.

Also, see the information warfare post from a sibling poster. Information, and tactically imposed voids of information are just as weaponizable as any object. Over longer timescales, no doubt. Still viable though.

[2008guy]

The human brain doesn’t change on a human timescale. Where there is variability there is natural selection. Do you think the world will select for friendliness?

[Balgair]

> A thread with low enough moment of inertia will likely not cause as much damage.

Shear forces cause glial scarring?

[2008guy]

Yes