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by mharroun 2268 days ago
I dont know if it was because of wework but I interviewed some od rgw top engineering leaders at meetup for replacing leadership roles at a startup I was consulting for. I gained a lot of insights into the engineering org at meetup.

As someone who looks at a "growing" startup up as 30-100 people the "bloat" of the company had me beside myself. Its a site where you search/join/pay to have groups meetup. Why do you need 10 different engineering teams with managers, directors, and VP's?

Conversation points like "I only lead the api for payments" and "how did you launch 5 features in 3 months!!!! Makes me wonder how much bloat, inefficiency, and dead weight exist in such companies.

Disclaimer 1: I get companies in certain spaces requires slower and more careful development practices and policies such has fintech and medtech, i do not consider meetup fitting those criteria.

Disclaimer 2: The startup I consulted for, asside from the founders, executives, and senior management had a great work/life balance so it wasnt like the engineers were doing double time effort, they just focused on being lean and efficient.

3 comments

> As someone who looks at a "growing" startup up as 30-100 people the "bloat" of the company had me beside myself. Its a site where you search/join/pay to have groups meetup. Why do you need 10 different engineering teams with managers, directors, and VP's?

> Conversation points like "I only lead the api for payments" and "how did you launch 5 features in 3 months!!!! Makes me wonder how much bloat, inefficiency, and dead weight exist in such companies.

I did a contract for $LARGE_MULTINATIONAL_RETAILER a few years ago. We needed to build a new customer registration process for online customers.

To be clear, we're talking two web pages and some data (name, other necessary personal information, contact details) inserted into a handful of databases. This data would then be used by all other online services.

It took 8 months. I estimated it involved 60 people from at least half a dozen teams. One of my colleagues estimated over 100 people.

I... couldn't really cope. I wanted to fire everyone[1], or at least almost everyone, and do the whole job with a small team (one to two pizzas) with some careful systems analysis in a few weeks.

At the end of the project, when all key stakeholders were on a call, and we finally ran a test that inserted all the data in the right places and allowed a customer to actually buy something, I nearly came from sheer relief. It is not healthy for a human being to get that excited over such a small victory after such a long period of time and effort expended.

Every single project was like that.

[1] Actually I wanted to let at least 70% - 80% of the people go in the entire directorate, along with a large swathe of middle and senior management. These weren't bad people, or stupid people, or even inept people - many were very smart, and very competent: just useless within the context of the company's needs.

That reminds me of the Ghostcat vulnerability in Tomcat. Basically our manager informed us about the vulnerability and set up a meeting to discuss possible solutions. Well, it was pretty obvious that you just need to set an AJP secret and update to the latest version. So that means editing maybe 4 lines in apache/tomcat config files and then restarting tomcat after the latest version has been installed. Obviously, we were done before that meeting even started but for some reason our manager got super excited about this microscopic victory. I'm not sure what caused his expectations to be so low but then I took a look at the results of our automated vulnerability scanner and I suddenly understood why. Some teams within this organization truly don't care about security at all.
VC is responsible for creating these behemoth bloated cesspits. If Meetup wasn't constantly being bailed out by venture capitalists, it would have died long ago and been replaced with a more nimble distributed ecosystem. The efficiency of capitalism lol.

I'm a big fan of consciously capping a startup to 20-100 people max. Just hire slowly and automate everything. If you don't hard cap numbers you'll inevitably end up with multiple layers of managerial hierarchy in both vertical and horizontal silos.

Except for the nasty first sentence you make debatable points... I’d get rid of the deplorable usage of the word “cesspit”.
Cesspit || monopoly. You can't please HN when it's sucking on or thirsting for that VC juice.
If I may ask, how did you find this engineer's technical level, and how did they react to these questions? Have they treated that as normal, or were as concerned with the bloat as you were?