[fatjokes]

I think the main issue is that the Internet (especially reddit, and to a lesser extent, HN) is just not a good place for nuanced discussion.

China = totalitarian = bad. Any good results are either by luck or a lie.

USA = democracy = good. Any bad results are due to incompetence or Trump/Hillary (depending on your leanings).

Plenty of people exist in the gray area, but they're not going to be upvoted. Any post in support of China is going to be marked as "bot" or "CCP shill".

Japan gets lumped in with the US. The case I find funniest is South Korea. Everybody agrees SK has done an amazing job while maintaining a very free society and vibrant democracy. The room tends to go quiet when you mention that this was enabled by their mass surveillance network. (Check out the live streams of their traffic cams! [1]).

[1] https://map.naver.com/v5/?c=14135232.1111786,4519333.3257182...

[bogomipz]

>" The room tends to go quiet when you mention that this was enabled by their mass surveillance network. (Check out the live streams of their traffic cams!"

I fail to see how live traffic feeds is evidence of their mass surveillance network. The US also has these. NYC and the DoT even broadcast the feeds it on a cable TV channel:

https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/atis.shtml

https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/watching-city-...

[maallooc]

> Mass surveillance network

Citation needed.

Live traffic feeds are common here in the US[1] and other countries.

[1] https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/live-traffic-cameras/

[jariel]

"> Mass surveillance network

Citation needed."

Are you kidding?

China's mass surveillance and censorship network is pervasive, all-encompassing, widely publicized, and an intrinsic aspect of their state apparatus.

It's not even remotely comparable to 'license plate monitoring' in scale, scope, politicization, repercussions.

This level of relativistic rhetoric is anti-intellectual.

[maallooc]

So what? Are you saying that South Korea has mass surveillance system because it’s close to China?

[gwright]

The comment was in reference to South Korea, not to China.

At least that is how I read it.

[gruez]

[deleted]

[maallooc]

So? Having a traffic cam and/or having a traffic cam live feed does not prove that country has a 'mass surveillance network'.

[gruez]

[deleted]

[maallooc]

Am I missing something from your rebuttal? Where are 'phone scanners, facial-recognition cameras, face and fingerprint databases and many others' in South Korea?