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by seibelj 2269 days ago
Assuming you were incorporated and had a business account - declare bankruptcy and the bill goes away. I don’t understand why you would still pay the bill if you were going out of business anyway.
2 comments

Why didn't I file bankruptcy? This happened in Australia and declaring bankruptcy was not the right thing to do - for many reasons, not the least of which it makes it much harder to operate as a director of a previously bankrupt company, but in the worst case my bank would have just gone after me as I'd given a personal guarantee.
There is no concept of limited liability in Australia?
Even in the United States, most small business loans require personal guarantees which narrowly override the corporate limited liability to make that guarantor liable for that debt if the company doesn't pay. There are some rare exceptions, and possibly more for startups funded by big-name VCs, but I don't know.
But this isn't a small business loan: it's a debt to Amazon.
I read that as the business owner had a preexisting business loan with a personal guarantee.
Except the loan money will go straight to Amazon, and you are now unable to repay the loan to the bank
Where exactly does the bank enter the picture?

Scenario 1: Amazon will ask for the payment (if using cc); the bank will respond there are no funds in the account; Amazon deals directly with the company further directly, not with the bank, eventually getting payment order from the court. If the company went bankrupt meanwhile, Amazon might not get their money.

Scenario 2: Amazon will send the invoice; invoice will not get paid. After due date, Amazon will contact the company directly; bank doesn't even enter the picture, until collection order comes from the court. If the company went bankrupt meanwhile, Amazon might not get their money.

There's no scenario where some hypothetical loan would go straight to Amazon, unless Amazon has some instrument, that instruct the bank to pay them. Something like bank guarantee or promisory note, and uses them before declaring bankrupcy.

Depends where Amazon ranks in seniority in bankruptcy (protection). You don't have to run out of money to file for it. Purdue Pharma sure didn't.
I’ve worked in many early startups and I’ve never seen anyone use such a loan.
Were they in the US and funded by VCs? That kind of startup probably doesn't need to do this. Unsure about VC-funded businesses elsewhere. Many or even most small businesses without VC funding do take that kind of loan.
You work at the 1%

The real world is filled with barbershops, daycares, bars, clinics, PVC manufacturers etc

None of them get VC money.

When they need money, they go to a bank and usually have to place a PG in order to get funds.

Tech startups have it easy. Its all equity. You are not pledging your lifetime earnings on a business idea.

Once tech startups lose their upside potential (prob not anytime soon if ever), you will be sitting with the regular folk, those that pledge their skin and life to their business.

If a director becomes personally bankrupt (such as trying to be the good guy and using personal guarantees to take on company debts in an effort to scrape through) then they're banned from running a company until it clears. If they're the director of a company that goes bankrupt, I believe they get 2 chances (companies) before there's a chance of being banned from running more for a time.

Either way it might be nice to keep your options open, depending on your plans.

Or you could just send an email to support and ask them to waive the charges.
If that got to the right person on the right day and they knew it was going to kill the company, it seems likely to help. And combined with the fact that it would probably guarantee future revenue way off into the future...
I have never heard of a case where they wouldn’t give refunds. AWS is competing with the 95% of compute that is not running in the cloud (their own statistics). The last thing they want is a reputation that one mistake will bankrupt a business.
We had spot instances with a mistakenly high bid that incurred thousands overnight when the prices spiked. No refund offered.

I know several other companies that had expensive mistakes without refunds. There's probably a complex decision tree for these issues and I doubt anyone really knows outside of AWS.

> I have never heard of a case where they wouldn’t give refunds.

Really? Working in Southern California a few years ago, refund requests were refused ALL THE TIME. This is why there's a common belief that what you are charged you simply owe them, period.

It may be more progressive now, but let's not be revisionist.

Once I got something like a year of EC2 charges retroactively reimbursed for a few instances I hadn't used.
I've repeatedly seen requests of this nature handled by AWS - 75% cuts to billing, 90% cuts even.
This. I work at Amazon and this is more common than you'd expect. "Customer obsession" and all that.
I'm not the type to 'want to speak to the manager' for my self-imposed problems but the more I hear about people coming out ahead the more I think I need to change my ways.
I think you have to think of it a bit more from Amazon's perspective. If you accidentally burn through your entire startup capital and shut down, they lose. If the risk of this sort of thing becomes well-known, then startups will start using other services rather than AWS, and the small fraction that grow big will be less likely to use AWS.

Being an entitled jerk who blames other people for your own negligence is bad, and you shouldn't change that. But openly giving companies the opportunity to be kind (while admitting that it was entirely your fault) potentially helps both them and you.

Yep, and an opportunity to educate on things like budgets and billing alarms to try to prevent this in the future.
Yeah, every time I’ve heard this story support have always fixed it, at least the first time per account