[cactus2093]

And this is why we need police or national guard to enforce lockdowns. And to charge people spreading the virus with felony murder and manslaughter charges, like they seem to be doing in extreme cases in Italy.

I’ve seen some toxic comments on this site before, but nothing like someone blatantly saying “I’ll happy kill those around me to avoid any inconvenience to my daily routine”.

[dang]

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Other users have replied to that comment in keeping with the guidelines, but your post here breaks them—for example:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[SpicyLemonZest]

This kind of attitude is exactly my concern. You don't seem to have a shred of sympathy for the rights or motivations of the people who don't want to be locked down; you're talking about them as though they're cattle, and they'll be prodded into compliance no matter what they have to think about it. Every advocate I've seen of months-long lockdowns has had this kind of authoritarian power fantasy.

[op03]

It works when people are afraid. We do have a Negativity Bias [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias] that gets amplified under stress.

You have to understand what you are trying push back on before telling someone who is scared - deal with it. It never works. Fears will just increase.

How else do you think we end up with 20 year wars, wall st bailouts, the TSA, the NSA, drone strikes, metal detectors at schools etc etc?

Dealing with people who are worried or panicking requires more imagination.

[SpicyLemonZest]

I agree with what you're saying. It's very important to send positive messages: we'll get through this, we'll soon have enough medical capacity to treat everyone who falls sick, we've weathered worse crises in the past and this one won't be the one that beats us. I try to do that and encourage other people to do it.

But it also needs to be made clear to people who propose to build a dystopian society that this is not okay. No amount of fear makes it justifiable or understandable to propose that your fellow citizens should be rounded up at gunpoint.

[op03]

First part is good. Second part of "needs to be made clear" is where you will run into issues.

We have this need to get everyone to agree with our views. But firstly it's not important to get things done and secondly it's not possible because of the variety of different needs and personality traits in the population.

It's a possible approach only on Putin or Xi planet . But it breaksdown in democracies (esp given the propaganda these days) people just harden their positions(they hear your view as an ultimatum or a demand), get defensive, react, attack etc. Trust breaksdown and then there is no hope for anything nuanced.

Better option is to give people something else to focus on, something to do etc while doing everything you doing well in your first para.

[SpicyLemonZest]

It's intended as an ultimatum and a demand. At some point we have to shift from calming people to fighting back; we can't wait until soldiers are in the streets to say that months of martial law is unacceptable.

[op03]

Protecting your interests (economic, freedom or whatever else) sounds like your goal. Ultimatums are the route you are choosing to get there.

And the point to remember is ultimatums work when you have established authority and power over everyone else ala Xi, Putin etc.

In democracies it doesn't work because power is distributed. To force the political/judicial/business/military/intelligence/religious/social/media circles in all parts of the country to all bend over is probably the most complicated route to choose to get to your goal.

[alexandercrohde]

Your emotions are out of whack. Quotation marks are used for exact quotes, and nobody is saying anything remotely like that. I'm not going to continue to dive into the reasons I disagree with your argument. But that level of emotionality is incredibly tribal and counterproductive to the pursuit of truth.