[haack]

Interesting to see the comments suggesting that we should expect the NHS to pay if there is a problem that needs solving. It seems the implication is that labour should never be done voluntarily (even in a crisis situation) in a free economy. I find it bleak that we expect our societies and markets to function, solely driven by "selfish" value-chasing individuals.

As someone who has grown up benefitting from the NHS, I will sign up to volunteer, and am glad to do so. I wouldn't be surprised to see ample response from the rest of the nation.

Interestingly, in the past I've also experienced private health-care in the US, and yet wouldn't consider volunteering in the same situation on that side of the pond (and, of course, they likely wouldn't ever ask).

[kazen44]

> I find it bleak that we expect our societies and markets to function, solely driven by "selfish" value-chasing individuals.

the inherent problem of today's society is exactly because it rewards people who are "selfish" and value-chasing far more then having a far more communical mindset.

In terms of value extraction from society, those who play selfish win, and they win at the expense of others.

I would even like to add that they might even be rewarded for this behaviour at large in our current economic system. Because the system is very bad at including costs of external factors. These external factors right now are being paid for by society at large. A prime example of this would be enviromental costs and bailouts with too little strings attached.

[Traster]

I would put it this way: If you want to ask people to volunteer their time to help essential government services, then don't also be the government that continually cuts corporation tax, income tax, and public services.

It's like the companies asking for a bailout -fine if you were running a good business and got impacted by a once in a lifetime event, maybe we should look at it. But if the reasons you've got no cash reserves to weather the storm is because you spent it all on share buybacks then maybe the risk lies with the shareholders since they reaped the rewards.

It's just another step in the cycle - cut services, cut taxes and then act shocked when the services aren't good enough to cope, and then point in every direction you can except for actually providinig the services that the government is responsible for.

[grey-area]

That’s not the reason people are suggesting it, the economy is in dire need of stimulus, and many people are out of work..

[nothrabannosir]

This reply is underrated. It’s not about community vs selfishness, it’s killing two birds with one stone.

[SkyBelow]

>It seems the implication is that labour should never be done voluntarily (even in a crisis situation) in a free economy.

Because when those volunteers go to get something they want, such as buying a home or paying rent, it won't be given to them free. It might be possible for some sense of social capital to exist to feel the gap, but that seems to be mostly gone these days as it has be optimized and hacked until it is no longer recognizable.

[graeme]

One counterpoint: there are now a bunch of unemployed people. The govt is planning to give them much aid.

This implies that paid labour is basically free for governments at the moment. They can either pay people jobless claims, or hire people for the new work that needs doing.

Volunteers are also a great idea! But I want to emphasize that governments shouldn't shy away from projects now if the labour costs money. Because they're currently about to pay people to not labour. So any outlay in salary is a savings on unemployment claims.

[rexpop]

We can't buy groceries, nor pay rent nor utilities with volunteer hours. So long as we're subjected to Capitalist demands, we'll be forced to demand Capitalist compensation, or perish.

[lucb1e]

I also can't buy groceries from holding the door open for people and yet I do. People are sometimes just nice to each other, helping each other out, especially in need, or in this case, a pandemic.

[temac]

There is that little thing that some people who frequent HN might forget about: some people are not paid a lot (for tons of them this is a mistake of the society, and they should be paid more to begin with, but this is another issue than the immediate one) and actually need some money each month to pay rent, etc.

It is too easy to say the a mass of people should just work for free to cope for the mistakes of their government. Now of course some people will do it and I admire them, some of them will even do it while in personal financial trouble and I admire them even more.

But they absolutely should be paid in the end. Because the value they will provide to the society is just enormous, and "us" (for those who do not help with the crisis) not paying them would not really be the fairest situation...

[true_religion]

That’s really important to remember, but I don’t see why it should affect discussion here.

Presumably we aren’t talking about volunteering the time of other people, but ourselves. If we can all afford to do it, isn’t it something to be encouraged, especially since it will charitably benefit those who cannot afford to do it?

[lucb1e]

Maybe it's not wise for people to volunteer during work hours when they live paycheck to paycheck, but there are also a lot of people that can easily take one or two days off per week to help out. I'm not suggesting that someone who needs it foregoes their salary.

[rexpop]

There's definitely a selection bias in this forum. It's an echo chamber of petit bourgeois–myself included.

[rexpop]

Holding the door open comes at a much lower opportunity cost than the hours of volunteering which could be spent nourishing oneself in a callous world. Outside of full Communism, these selfless acts of Volunteerism are not survivable for most of the working class.

Remember, many people are one month away from the Sheriff showing up at our door, and evicting us at gunpoint.

[gridlockd]

> I find it bleak that we expect our societies and markets to function, solely driven by "selfish" value-chasing individuals.

Perhaps it's bleak, but it is an expectation that generally works even without massive brainwashing. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

> Interestingly, in the past I've also experienced private health-care in the US, and yet wouldn't consider volunteering...

So your willingness to help is premised on upholding some collectivist institution, not on helping save lives in times of a crisis. Interesting indeed.