[ManuelKiessling]

> We think of ourselves as an advanced democracy

The US Americans may think that they are an advanced democracy, but betting that the Western European societies see the US as a special case of a third world country or failed state is not exactly a risky bet (albeit one that cannot be validated, I’m afraid).

And no, not „because Trump“. Trump is not the reason that the US is the laughingstock of the civilized world, it is the proof that the judgement of the civilized world was warranted all along.

Don‘t get me wrong: many US Americans are very fine people. Some parts of your industry are really impressive. Lots of notable achievements in science. But „the US“ as a nation, and as a society?

There’s nothing we can look up to anymore.

[beatgammit]

I really don't understand this whole perspective. Europeans seem to come from a perspective of government protecting and providing for its people, which can be seen at least partially by people putting up with royal families throughout Europe. The US comes from the perspective that government can be a huge force for evil, so we should limit its ability to violate our rights. Other cultures come from different perspectives.

I live in the US largely because I was born here and partly because I don't like the perspective in Europe or E. Asia. I guess I feel the same way about Europe as Europe feels about the US, though if I were in control, I'd probably make some changes that Europeans would agree with (open borders, for one).

Instead of bickering about who is backwards, how about we just work together on things of mutual interest, like increasing free trade and freedom of movement? Name-calling isn't doing anyone any favors. Ideally, you should be able to live where you feel the most comfortable, and you should never be stuck because your government made poor choices.

[amorroxic]

Man, don't beat yourself up. Americans are great people and not that bad of a society now. (someone in a WE society). Hang in there, we'll bicker after :)