[arcticbull]

Please, stop with these. As experts have shared many times on here, once you need a ventilator, the ventilator is the least of your problems. Trying to apply a ventilator to a COVID-19 patient who needs one when you have no idea what you're doing can create the same lung injuries as COVID-19 itself.

[Mvandenbergh]

Just treat it as harmless hobbyism, which is what it is. When engineers are nervous, they build things. That is natural!

Will these open source designs save many lives? I doubt it. Large scale manufacturers working with existing vent makers will do a much better job. But... if it gets thousands of people thinking about artificial ventilation, we might get a lot of interesting new ideas that we can use in the decades to come.

[dsl]

> Just treat it as harmless hobbyism

Any other time, yes. In a time of widespread panic? Dangerous.

People are going to try to build and use these at home in an act of desperation to "do something", and end up killing their loved ones.

[gpm]

The set of people capable of building one of these machines and incapable of evaluating the risks of doing so is nearly empty. I don't think that's a real significant concern, to the extent it is it can be adequately mitigated by slapping some warnings on the blueprints instead of asking people not to try and design things.

This effort may well save no one in this crisis. It could still benefit by making future ventilators cheaper, serving as prior art on bullshit patents that people try to get on basic components of a ventilator in the future, and so on. This will very likely allow the health care system to funnel money into more effective life saving efforts in the future.

[nexuist]

Think back to Wuhan. Imagine the hospitals have closed their doors because they are already backed up. Your grandparent is dying in the room next door because no doctor is available to treat them.

Who the hell cares if you build a ventilator and try it then? They're going to die anyways. You are doing nothing except increasing their chance of survival by acting instead of waiting.

Should you use this while hospital beds are still available? Obviously not. But any care is better than no care and being treated by a Wikipedia doctor is better than being treated by no doctor when you're already on your deathbed.

[arcticbull]

Doing something may well be worse than doing nothing.

Concrete example: you get impaled by something. Do you: (a) do absolutely nothing and leave it in, and seek help or (b) rip it out as you see in movies because doing something is better than doing nothing.

(b) will kill you and (a) will save your life.

By doing something you have no business doing, no understanding of the mechanics and consequences you may will make it worse.

If everyone in Wuhan hooked up their loved ones to leaf blowers, the death rate probably would have been massively higher.

[dsl]

Your grandparent will care quite a deal.

Do you have the tools to intubate them properly? Do you know how to get a good head tilt? Do you have anesthetic and a vasoconstrictor to administer?

Before you build a ventilator, figure out how you would shove a garden hose down someones throat past the vocal cords. I'll wait.

[Mvandenbergh]

Ok, well if that is true then it is dangerous but I just do not believe that people will do that.

[whatshisface]

Please, continue with these. As experts have shared many times on here, ventilator shortages will soon become commonplace, and medical professionals have been discussing ways to use a bag, facemask and manual labor to work as a ventilator. Trying to apply a ventilator to a COVID-19 patient when you're a medical professional isn't possible when you don't have any free ventilators. Every bit helps.

[arcticbull]

Not every bit helps. Sometimes trying to do something, badly, will cause more harm than not trying. I sympathize, it's frustrating, and it's difficult to sit on your hands sometimes feeling like you should be doing something.

In totality, however, furthering things like DIY ventilators (like DIY open-heart surgery) can cause more harm than good.

We've got governments, experts and professionals mobilizing to prepare for this, let's allow them to do their jobs. This is what they've trained for.

[whatshisface]

>let's allow them to do their jobs

Do hobbyists rigging together servo motors to prepare for a worst-case scenario really interfere with the soon-to-be overwhelmed professional medical industry workers attempts to do their jobs? The only reason I can think of to be against this would be kind of like doing a trust fall, voicing against independent work to signal personal trust in the capacity of the medical system. Of course, that would be a purely social reason, not really helpful for saving lives or improving the system.

[arcticbull]

I mean, what if I posted a write-up on how to use a bellows from a forge in lieu of a ventilator. Wouldn't you agree that's downright negligent if not actively harmful? Distracting from the actual problem? Would you at least agree it's totally unhelpful?

Just because it's got firmware doesn't mean that description isn't apt.

[whatshisface]

Imagine a stadium filled with cots, where there are many doctors walking around telling people "you're going to be okay" while triaging equipment. (An extreme example but not impossible.) I think if you gave a nurse in that situation some forge bellows and realistic instructions for using them, they just might try it. When you're in a real sticky situation, plenty of medical professionals will be willing to shoot for remote chances. What would they rather do, push someone out of triage or try the servo contraption?

[arcticbull]

That sounds like you're suggesting they'd just be trying to kil everyone instead of trying to treat them. Are you confident in your knowledge of what ventilator is, how it works, who needs it, who can administer it?

It feels like you're intentionally trying not to understand the point that just forcing air into someone isn't a valuable thing to do. What matters is how, what degree, the amount of control, volume, timing, and the ability of medical professionals to control the parameters. Otherwise you could just use your leaf blower.

Putting air into someone is the easy part.