[lisper]

So two things...

First, one of the reasons HTML has been as successful and widespread as it has been is that mere mortals are able to use it, not just trained software engineers and designers. Mere mortals may not make such decisions on a lark, but they might make the decision incorrectly and have to go back and change it for that reason. Why make more work for yourself than necessary?

Second, making changes is not the only reason to make code DRY. Re-using TR and TD tags is analogous to operator overloading. If you want to add two numbers you want to be able to write x+y and have the compiler figure out whether that means an integer add, a floating point add, etc. You don't want to have to write (say) x II+ y if you want to add two integers, x FF+ y to add two floats, x LL+ y to add two longs, etc. It's the same for table rows and cells. The mental distance between tables-for-layout and tables-for-structure is smaller than the mental distance between integers and floats. It's just annoying to have to keep telling the computer over and over and over again "this is for layout" or "this is for structure" particularly in a case where the number of repetitions can be very, very large. There is no value add in forcing someone to do substantially more typing when the thing being typed contains no additional information that the system does not already have.

[goto11]

> It's just annoying to have to keep telling the computer over and over and over again "this is for layout" or "this is for structure" particularly in a case where the number of repetitions can be very, very large.

I have a hard time understanding this scenario. What kind of content are you working with?

[lisper]

What difference does that make?

[goto11]

I'm trying to understand the scenario you describe in the context of HTML.

[lisper]

If I am inside the context of a <table-for-structure> tag and I want to create a new row then the only kind of row I can create is a <table-row-for-structure>. It makes no sense to put a <table-row-for-display> inside a <table-for-structure> so requiring the programmer to specify <table-row-for-structure> rather than just <table-row> or <tr> is making her do a lot of extra typing for no value add. A <tr> inside a <table-for-structure> is necessarily a <table-row-for-structure> and a <tr> inside a <table-for-display> is necessarily a <table-row-for-display> just as a + operator operating on two integer values is an integer addition and a + operator operating on two floats is a floating point addition. There is no need to force the programmer to do extra typing to specify what is meant by + in a particular context. Likewise there is no need to force the programmer to do extra typing (or thinking) to specify what <tr> means inside a particular context.

[goto11]

But...you do only need to type <tr>. The problem you describe only becomes an issue if you use <table>s for layout in the first place, so just don't do that. If you want to display something (which isn't semantically a table) in a grid-like layout, you use display:table or display:grid in CSS, you don't change the markup. And vice-versa if you have <table> which you don't want to display in rows and columns, you can override the default presentation in CSS without changing the markup.

The hypothetical <table-for-layout> element is just not needed in any scenario. It would have been useful back in the day before IE supported display:table, but that is at least a decade ago.

[lisper]

> The problem you describe only becomes an issue if you use <table>s for layout in the first place, so just don't do that.

I could just as easily say that the "problem of overloaded operators" only becomes a problem if you try to use + to add anything other than two ints. So don't do that.

But OK, assuming I accept the premise, what should I do instead? The CSS community has been dithering about the answer for years. Only very recently has there been anything even remotely approaching an acceptable solution i.e. a solution that actually reproduces table layouts without having to pile on a ton of hacks. In the intervening years, a lot of legacy code was produced that used <table> for layout because it was the only thing that actually worked.

There also the fact that <display-table><tr><td> or something like that just looks a lot cleaner and is easier to read than <div class=table-for-display><div class=table-row-for-display><div class=table-cell-for-display>. When you make complex table layout you end up with a lot of TR and TD tags, so it makes sense to keep those short to avoid cluttering things up.