[djsumdog]

Keep in mind Zen Garden was written WAAAAAAAAY before mobile layouts were a thing. Back then, you had mobile sites .. for people with PalmOS, BlackBerry or flip phones with tiny browsers. I think my edition of this book came out before the first iPhone (I remember owning it when the girl behind me at work got the original iPhone EDGE), so responsive design wasn't a thing (I don't think media queries even existed in the CSS standard, or if they were, few were using them yet).

[gshdg]

Heck, when the Zen Garden was first released, you couldn't even browse the web on a Blackberry. 1024x768 monitors were a luxury. 760px wide was all you could count on for a browser window once you accounted for window edges and scrollbars on the average user's 800x600 monitor (a few years later as 1024px monitors became more common, a 960px site width became the standard); and I had co-workers who were still getting by with 640x480.

[hinkley]

I was fighting my coworkers with 1440 monitors to make sure we still worked on 768 width (plenty for 800px + scrollbar, or portrait on the brand new iPad). UI people like to maximize negative space in their mockups and it's not uncommon for them to use extremely short example text to emphasize that effect. Like how your living room looked so big until you put all of your crap into it.

And the thing is, even if you had a 16XX monitor, who wants to maximize a tool that you might be transcribing data in or out of? I might actually need two windows side by side to facilitate that work.

[hinkley]

I was pitching responsive (or at least, fluid) design by 2011, and I was not blazing trails. I started using the iPad as an example but tiny laptops were an issue, and in a business setting, most production projectors were only 1024 pixels, hardly anyone had the 1280s, and the cheap ones were 800x600 native with terrible interpolation.

Wikipedia has this timeline:

> Cameron Adams created a demonstration in 2004 that is still online.[46] By 2008, a number of related terms such as "flexible", "liquid",[47] "fluid", and "elastic" were being used to describe layouts. CSS3 media queries were almost ready for prime time in late 2008/early 2009.[48] Ethan Marcotte coined the term responsive web design[49] (RWD)—and defined it to mean fluid grid/ flexible images/ media queries—in a May 2010 article in A List Apart.[2] He described the theory and practice of responsive web design in his brief 2011 book titled Responsive Web Design. Responsive design was listed as #2 in Top Web Design Trends for 2012 by .net magazine after progressive enhancement at #1.

And while the Garden was indeed around long before that, IMO it didn’t get properly cool until maybe ‘07. And once fluid and responsive came in it wasn’t keeping up.

The point, I thought, was to be able to send people there to learn, and I was afraid of having to fix that kind of smoke and mirrors in our production code so I stopped telling people about it, other than other seasoned UI people fora particular design, and half the time it was to laugh at one, not learn from it.

[brigandish]

> IMO it didn’t get properly cool until maybe ‘07

Wikipedia says the book came out in 2005, which if I remember correctly had plenty of colour pics inside. You don't get that kind of tech book unless you're already properly cool.

[lmm]

Responsive design was absolutely a thing, because the web was responsive from the start. It was CSS that made it non-responsive; sites that used tables for layout reflowed properly on PDAs or phones, and still do.