[madez]

China is run by an authoritarian extreme nationalistic government that tortures its citizen that dare to critise it. That is widely known. Europe will stay a close ally with the USA and the cooperation will resume to normality once the USA has recovered from its recent personality cult and government running on lies.

[hatenberg]

None of this however is relevant in this context - what is relevant is that even with 3 months of warnings western democracies utterly failed to prepare.

We love our freedom and our ideals but our execution sucks and it has nothing to do with China being authoritarian at this point.

Taiwan is a democracy and they handled it just fine.

No, we have elected clowns who tell us sweet lies we want to hear rather than the information we need to adapt to a changing world and now we have the worst aspects of both systems. Shit, in the US the local officials wanted to do the right thing while the dear leader screwed around blocking them, dismissed the scientists and acting uncontrolled and unchecked supported by his blindly loyal party officials and supported by his quasi-state-TV channel - that's like reverse China, the stupid version. We are really not in any position to give lectures right now.

So let's stop shouting China is bad reflexively whenever our own faults are kicking us in the ass and actually demonstrate that our system is better - because right now, it is not - and a lot more people are about to die because of it.

And right next there is a whole host of other risks queued up that will hit us in the same way- antibiotics resistance, resource exhaustion, pensions, climate change, etc. If this was the preview of how we will adapt to these challenges - ignoring them and letting them wash over us to not inconvenience the existing economy - I think China has a much better chance of adapting right now than we have.

We are lucky in a way to get this virus as a reality check and not something worse... but even this will leave millions dead, many unnecessary due to lack of preparation during the time paid for with the lives of many people in Wuhan and failure to heed science.

[marvin]

This is very well phrased. I've been thinking similar thoughts, but it's hard to put them into words. Democracy and freedom of expression is fantastic, but this crisis reveals the failings of modern democracy in a spectacular fashion.

Especially in the places that have had the most spectacular demonstrations of this recently; the UK and the USA. It's tragic, but as you said, this is a mild wakeup call. Hope it's heeded, but I'm not too optimistic.

[jstummbillig]

Is this sarcasm? Because, honestly, at this point I can not tell.

Yes, China is doing terrible things – and also many good things. So is the US.

Of course as citizens of the western world it's easier to connect with western governments, weigh more heavily against the atrocities of the others and brush over our own systems shortcomings.

Lest we forget it is impossible to be objective.

[NotSammyHagar]

China imprisons people who criticized the covid19 effort, they arrested doctors. Did you know that docs or researchers put the covid19 sequence on the web (it was used by the seattle flu study to identify cv here), then arrested them.

The us doesn't do that kind of thing (trump would no doubt like to do that, with his talk of making cv numbers an official secret). China was very effective stopping the virus apparently, after screwing it up at the start. They just kidnapped a critical billionaire.

[FooBarWidget]

That 'whistleblower doctor' was reprimanded, not arrested. The Chinese supreme court later judged in his favor, saying that the police shouldn't have reprimanded him. Even CGTN, a state media, admitted that the treatment of the doctor was wrong.

[Barrin92]

The US might recover in the sense of electing someone less clownish but I don't see this economic mercantilist trend in the US subsiding because it is gaining steam on both sides of the political spectrum. Warren for example, championing 'economic patriotism' has similar impulses and withdrawing from the world is now an equally liberal and conservative position.

[FooBarWidget]

Yeah, "widely known". What is less widely known is that that isn't as true as you think.

Case study: https://mothership.sg/2019/12/news-china-protests-wenlou-hua... People in Guangdong province -- closely Hong Kong -- protested against the building of a crematorium. They also complained that the government didn't consult them before proceeding with the plans. Some even rioted, similarly to Hong Kongers. Did the government put them in jail forever? Nope: peaceful protesters were unharmed, rioters got jailed but were released later and forgiven. The government scrapped the plans and gave citizens what they wanted.

How is this possible in an authoritarian country? There is only one answer: your image of what China is, is wrong.

There is a core of truth of all the claims about authoritarianism and human rights abuse, but it's just that: a core. That core has been exaggerated beyond all reason.

Like someone else posted: china has good aspects and bad aspects. Just like the US. Just like other countries. Time to stop viewing it as a caricature and start treating it for what it really is.