[DataDrivenMD]

This reminds me of the time I spent at the NIH conducting research on cancer vaccines. After lots of trial and error, I had finally found something that seemed to prevent lung cancer in mice. I rushed to show my PI the results. He listened intently and asked thoughtful questions. Once I finished, I asked if the findings would be worthy of submitting to Nature.

He looked me straight in the eye and said, “I wouldn’t publish this anywhere, we still have work to do.”

“What do you mean?” I asked.

“If Nature published every article that purported to cure a human disease based on a mouse model, then I would be next in line for the Nobel Prize,” he replied.

Harsh but true. The challenge of curing human disease cannot be replicated in animal models. At least not yet.

[Amygaz]

I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models.

Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19, and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait until it chronically costs a massive amount of money (add chronic deficit to the list).

[laanako08]

It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabetes is a disease of poverty, not of character failure.

[jfritsch1984]

Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically.

Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.

[pengaru]

> When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically.

The EBT program here in the US completely distorts the situation.

My local grocery store serves a very poor community, most of the customers pay with EBT. I get to see what kind of things these folks buy, it's idiotic. We could do a lot of good if EBT were only applicable to fresh perishable goods like produce/eggs/milk/fish/meat.

It almost seems like people on EBT hate themselves for being poor and lean in on being self-destructive while at the store paying for things with EBT. They largely buy processed/prepared junk food, it's unbelievable, but if you view the food they buy as another drug prodding the reward centers of their brains, it's making them feel good in the short-term while giving them diabetes and other ailments in the long-term. EBT enables affording it by being almost equivalent to cash.

[jfritsch1984]

As I said: These people should be educated and motivated. They have to learn about the consequences of these decisions. Only if that does not work I would restrict EBT to healthier foods.

On a personal note: I agree with you. It‘s hilarious what people buy even when they are on a tight budget.

[ficklepickle]

Is it hilarious? Is the misfortune of others humorous?

Perhaps it's the people with poor impulse control and lack of education that end up economically poor. Maybe they never learned better.

Taking pleasure from those less fortunate than yourself is a trick of the ego. It makes you feel better about yourself by labeling someone else inferior. It comes from a place of insecurity about one's own worth.

By simplifying the problem to a group of people simply being inferior, you miss all the nuance, the complex system of factors that created the result.

It's much easier to dehumanize. But if we don't counter these primitive tribal urges, we are bound to repeat the tragedies of history.

[flexblue]

> Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food.

This isn't true, at least in the US. Or maybe we have a very different idea about what "healthy" food is.

Rice, beans and starchy vegetables are problematic for various (different) reasons and non-starchy vegetables generally aren't very nutritious from a macro perspective, which makes them relatively expensive.

[pengaru]

It is true, the produce department has some of the cheapest food in the store. How much is a bundle of bananas? That's a week's breakfast.

Unless you only buy organic, then you might go broke while hungry.

[flexblue]

Bananas by themselves are not healthy food, they're very high in sugar and have little else to offer.

Produce may look cheap, but if you add up the macros (and also some of the micros), it doesn't look cheap at all.

[jfritsch1984]

Could you tell me why rice and beans are problematic? The studies I know are typically in favor of these kinds of food. Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people. Is this some kind of carb-phobia?

[flexblue]

In the context of T2 diabetes, white rice is a high GI food. Brown rice, legumes and grains contain plant toxins and antinutrients which are poorly researched, but at least anecdotally can cause all kinds of issues especially in sensitive people.

Also, in the west, a lot of the culture of preparing these foods (such as fermenting or vigorous soaking) is bypassed.

> Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people.

That data suffers from the usual issues related to nutritional studies. Consuming beans in place of donuts may be a good predictor of health, that doesn't mean that beans themselves are healthy relative to other healthy foods.

[Arubis]

When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.

[jfritsch1984]

If you are well informed you could just cook once a week and eat that. I do that on the weekend with my family of five and it's quite a nice ritual. We cook rice and potatoes, put beans and sauce on top. And then put it in 20 containers for the week. I can prepare these meals within 2 minutes with a microwave. Breakfast is basically the same every day: Oat meal with some fruits. In the evening we eat bread with spread (which we also make on the weekend).

I would say we spend way less on food than your typical American. It's really THAT cheap. Also we have a lot of food for CoViD-19 as we store a lot of food in our cellar all year around (lentils, whole oats, canned beans, etc.).

Ah, and we are not poor in any way. I'm among top 5% in Germany. I think it's just healthy and sustainable (for the same reason we don't own a car).

[flexblue]

Without any further context, this is most likely not a healthy diet. You're certainly missing out on B vitamins and heme iron due to lack of meat and likely have a poor Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio due to the use of plant oils over other fats. Just a guess.

You also probably get way too much sugar from sugary fruits which you overindulge in because your diet otherwise is so "healthy". Instead of soft drinks you have fruit juices, which have effectively the same amount of sugar. Again, just a guess.

You probably got your nutrition advice from ideologically based publications, or you're just "winging it" based on what makes sense to you, in which case you're likely going to be wrong as well.

[pengaru]

This is nonsense, you don't even need to cook anything at all to eat healthy from the grocery store.

You just have to get off your ass and actually go buy perishable fresh groceries regularly and plan for the week ahead.

Laziness and convenience prevails.

If it's a lack of time, then it's a lack of time to even hit the grocery store. Which depending on where you live, if it's a food desert situation, may be valid.

[fred256]

> I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models.

A well known joke in the diabetes community: the soonest way to find a cure for diabetes is to figure out how to turn humans into mice.

[root_axis]

> 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions

Do you have a source for that claim? My understanding is that genetics is the primary risk factor for diabetes.

[jfritsch1984]

Check Adventist health study 2. Vegans for example had 60-70% less diabetes. Guess they had the same genes before choosing that diet.

[bitwize]

There was an "...In Mice" meme about this very topic that was even featured here on Hackernews.