[jfkebwjsbx]

If you cannot by arsed to learn a few new development tools or workflows, I am sorry but this field is likely to burn you out very soon, be it Linux kernel development, the next shiny GitHub replacement or the new edition of HTML/CSS/whatever.

And let's not start about learning the myriad of tools you gotta learn to do in professional Linux kernel development (or any kind of specialized development for that matter).

If you want to educate your students on being one more cog in the machine and make them complacent on learning the bare minimum, that's on you. I for sure wasn't taught like that.

[highspeedmobile]

This isn't about me or what workflow I can learn. It's really about the entry point for beginners contributing to operating systems in general and making it accessible for them. Not just Linux.

On that matter, the barrier for being a long term Linux contributor is still very high and this is from the perspective of outsiders in general. So unless you're working at a company that does professional Linux development with the hardware and software resources available to you, it is actually the outsiders that will be definitely burned out and won't bother with contributing anyway and will go to another OS kernel project to start from.

Unlike you, I don't push beginners into the deep end for them to later drown. I get them started on an easier yet similar path where they use similar tools which eventually they later become potential Linux contributors at a company working on the kernel. But the starting path is certainly not Linux.

[jfkebwjsbx]

And why should beginners be contributing to the bloody kernel? Why should kernel devs (paid by companies) spend resources on making it easy for beginners?

Here is the thing: kernel development in the most widely used production one is not a trivial thing.

It is like pretending that architecture students should be helped to go work on the next biggest skyscraper as their first project and spend the time of actual architects to make it easy for them.

If you want people to get into kernel development, there are kernels wrote specifically for teaching purposes.

[highspeedmobile]

Just read all my posts again and then you will realise that you constructed a strawman argument and addressed a point I never said. No-one directly said that beginners should be contributing to the Linux kernel when I actually said that beginners should get experience from joining other similar but easier open-source OS projects before joining a company specialising in Linux development to be long term Linux contributors.

Technically, anyone can contribute to the Linux kernel due to its open-source nature given that their patches are reviewed by the maintainers and it is then accepted.

> Why should kernel devs (paid by companies) spend resources on making it easy for beginners?

Not only I didn't say that, but you do realise that there are companies that exist who both contribute to the Linux kernel and offer training for a one time fee as an introduction into kernel development? Given the beginner meets the experience pre-requisites: Bootlin, BayLibre and several others have professional kernel contributors that do this.

> If you want people to get into kernel development, there are kernels wrote specifically for teaching purposes.

Read all my posts again. I go beyond just 'kernels' and named other complete OSes to get OS development and kernel experience from before joining a company specialising in Linux development. I said in the last post that '...the starting path is certainly not Linux.', it seems you certainly didn't read that.

Every professional Linux kernel developer started as a beginner somewhere and certainly wasn't born an expert. Some beginners were university students who either joined Linux companies by participating in programs like Google Summer of Code or took a paid Linux kernel training course by a company specialising in kernel development. You will notice that your last comment is in agreement with my whole argument.