[ggffryuuj]

I use a long diceware password for my iPhone. It prevents police from bypassing the rate limiter and brute forcing your password quickly. There’s supposed to be a machine that allows them to do that.

Unlocking my phone throughout the day is done with Touch ID. If I think I’m going to encounter the police or be away from my phone, I press the lock button five times which disables Touch ID. I’ve been doing this for two years and it works great.

[scarface74]

While I agree with you, it’s necessary but not sufficient. Police are just as willing to use rubber hose decryption.

[MFogleman]

Do you have a citation that police are as _equally willing_ to beat a password out of someone as they are to use existing tool to image a phone in compliance with a lawfully obtained and executed search warrant?

[DyslexicAtheist]

In 2015 I was detained at Heathrow by immigration for not willing to unlock my phone. I sat there for hours being told that somebody would be free to attend to me "shortly". 6 hours later I was told that it was a routine check. I was there for 14 hours, and missed my business appointments in London running a security workshop. They returned my phone after a few hours but I was still kept there waiting for somebody to attend to no avail. I called my lawyer after several threats that this will have legal consequences for them and was initially denied that request. When I got through to my lawyer I was advised to keep still until they charge me. After they let me go I threw the phone in the next bin I could find. I wish I had the brains and guts to take it home and RE this thing because I'm sure they bugged it. But I was too terrified at the time.

A close friend of mine is a cop in Ireland. I love him to bits but hate him for his bragging about how he loves to use his pepper spray after having his 5th Guinness.

Another brother of mine is actually a cop. He thinks that other cops are all corrupt. And he suffers a lot due to institutional racsim in the force and lack of promotion unless you agree to be a racist.

I grew up spending lot of time time riding a cop car with an old guy who really liked my gran and was with the criminal police. We walked our dogs together. I was 8 he was in his 50ies. One of the things I still remember vividly is when he exited the car to show me the power he had over people by stopping and questioning them and he also bragged about all the "dirty crooks" that he took shortcuts with to arrest them because he was the good guy and they were the bad ones.

My brother dated a girl who's ex was a cop with the criminal police in Bavaria. he (the cop) abused her and raped her over several years. He also loved to brag about what he would do to her and how he would fuck up her life if she ever left him. Covering his and his friends asses over speeding or parking tickets were the least of his crimes.

Seriously cops are just people. Fuck people. Fuck power. Fuck cops. If you think for 1 second that a cop has your interest in mind think again.

[MFogleman]

I 100% believe every anecdote you just presented. I'm sorry that those things happened, especially when unpunished. As you said, cops are just people. Most people are okay. Some are heros, some are monsters. Weeding out the monsters is notoriously difficult, especially when a profession like law enforcement has definite appeal to them. It also appeals to the heros.

I can give anecdotes about friends who are cops that risked their lives to save strangers, even the bad guys. I know more than 1 cop who arrested a guy, and had the suspects family thank them for how they saved their life in the process.

I can also bring up anecdotes about how people who were so passionate about security were also criminals hiding criminal deeds. I could assume, and assert, that since I've personally seen people use their phones' security to hide evidence of murder, and infant rape, that all people who care about their phones' security are the same.

But that'd be a disservice. It'd be a disservice to those who legitimately care about security for legitimate reasons, because freedom is important, and fragile. It'd be a disservice to others who aren't sold on either side of the discussion. And it'd be a disservice to myself in that it makes me seem very narrow minded and narrow viewed. Its letting fear overcome observation.

There are 700,000 cops in America alone. Undoubtedly some are unqualified garbage. Some are malicious monsters. Some are believe the ends justify the means. Some are paragons of truth and justice. Some aren't malicious, or dumb, but only care about their careers and are shortsighted with all else. We can't make sweeping statements either way, it does nothing to help.

There have undoubtedly been cases of cops using rubber hose decryption. There have been warrants falsified intentionally and unintentionally.

But cops wanting to be able to execute search warrants on phones isn't as simple as "We want more power, more control". There are countless legitimate cases of human trafficking, murder, and sadly worse. We, as a society, have to figure this stuff out. We have to find the balance between "Give us all your secrets" and "Do whatever you want without question".

But we can't have this conversation to find the balance, until we admit that we are on a scale.

[scarface74]

Well, let’s get past and anecdotes to data. There are clear statistics that police target minorities and the “War on Drugs” became about “treating a disease” as soon as it started hitting “rural America”.

So given the choice between giving the police more power and less power, I would much rather they have less power.

[DyslexicAtheist]

I agree with all these points. I should have also brought some positive examples as you did to present my case more balanced (which there are plenty).

> But we can't have this conversation to find the balance, until we admit that we are on a scale.

exactly!!

[scarface74]

Do I really need to list all of the cases of police corruption and brutality?

[DyslexicAtheist]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-hose_cryptanalysis

[ultrarunner]

Or, for the academic version: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/security.png

[notRobot]

For those who don't know, rubber hose decryption is basically coercion or torture.

See this very relevant xkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/538/

[Nerada]

I've often heard this said, but my iPhone 8 doesn't operate like this at all. Touch ID still works regardless of how many times I press the lock button. Is there a setting I'm missing? I've looked around and couldn't find anything.

[wlesieutre]

It ought to, this is an iOS 11 feature which is what the iPhone 8 shipped with.

I don’t see any option for it in the passcode settings either.

On my iPhone SE it takes me to a screen with power off, medical ID, and emergency SOS sliders. To get back to the home screen after that I need to enter my passcode.

https://www.imore.com/how-quickly-disable-touch-id-when-you-...

[Nerada]

>volume and lock buttons simultaneously

Aha, that does it!

[jedieaston]

You have to be on iOS 12.4 or later I believe.

[anamexis]

In fact, when I just tried this on my iPhone XR (iOS 13.3.1) it started making an emergency call.

[dannyw]

That’s part of it. Depending on your settings, it may also make an emergency call, but it will always lock Face ID and Touch ID.

[rangibaby]

Hold a volume button, lock button, and your home button at the same time