[ominous_prime]

somewhat OT:

> 2. You mean (IIRC) 'ip link show'. ifconfig on linux isn't maintained, and breaks in a bunch of situations (Aliases on VLANs on bonds, for one)

This seemingly simple change seems to be taking forever to gain traction; "use `ip` for network config on linux".

There is so much googlable stuff instructing one to use ifconfig, route, etc. that it seems to self perpetuate. I often find people telling others that "you can't do that in Linux", when the real answer is along the lines of "you can't do that with the route command" (to give an example that I've seen a few times recently, route can't manipulate routing tables)

[zdw]

It's not that it self-perpetuates, it's that nearly every other Unix does it that way, and thus there's an expectation that ifconfig, if it exists, has similar functionality on all platforms.

If you're going to deprecate a command, make running the old one either:

1. Not exist, and thus have the shell throw an "command not found" error

2. Print a useful message like "Use <newcommand> instead"

3. Work, but do #2 as well.

The current situation is like leaving a pair of rusty pliers out in the open, and hiding the brand new socket set when the goal is tightening a bunch of bolts.

[nailer]

Yeah, the Linux distros (which themselves obviously only use 'ip') should have done #2 10 years ago.

When I worked at Red Hat (till 2005) their official RHCE documentation still told people to use ifconfig and route.

[ominous_prime]

I agree wholeheartedly that the old tools should be hidden away, and I assume that they haven't been, because that will break more things than the actual renaming of devices. I bet even adding deprecation warnings could cause a ruckus, seeing how many times I've come across `ifconfig | something` both in scripts and people shelling out from other languages. I do wish the distros would just make a clean break, and let people fix their crappy code.

[kelnos]

Then you just make the deprecation warning go to stderr instead of stdout. '|' only redirects stdout.

[ominous_prime]

True - I'm just grasping as straws to come up with an excuse as to why this has gone on for so long.

[vdm]

Love the tools analogy! So true. LOL

[vacri]

I used ifconfig until about halfway through last year when someone pointed 'ip' out to me. I kept using ifconfig right up until the point I found that ip didn't require root rights...

[ominous_prime]

Neither needs root privileges to display interface status. Perhaps it's a PATH issue for you - sbin/ is often left out of the PATH for regular users.

[vacri]

Fair enough, thanks for the info. I just generally found that I couldn't simply make it work on a standard debian install and assumed it was permissions.

ta