[iateanapple]

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists.

In my experience there are two types of atheists who go to AA: those for whom religion “isn’t their thing” and those who are actively hostile to religion.

I think the latter group should find an alternative to AA.

[athrowaway69]

Nice. Blaming the victim and implying I was the hostile one.

I'm respectful of others' religions. It's a private matter. I made friends, ostensibly, until they found out I was an atheist.

So fuck right off with your pseudo-righteous bullshit, okay?

[NAaddict167]

Yep I agree with you.

Not right to blame you for other’s behaviours.

Doesn’t sound like you did anything wrong from what you posted.

[iateanapple]

Judging from how hostile your response is you are probably in the later category.

I’m an atheist and I’ve been going to AA meetings for years in a very religious area and I’ve had no problems at all.

If you are in the former category you are welcome and should try a different AA group.

[krageon]

Consider that you did suggest it was their own fault because they did something bad and you have all the reason you need for their "hostile" response. You've been fairly unpleasant about something that was obviously a big thing in their life and that yields you responses like this. Turning that around and (again) blaming them and suggesting their negative response is entirely their fault goes beyond that into the fairly toxic. That's not a healthy way to communicate with other people.

[iateanapple]

> Consider that you did suggest it was their own fault

No I didn’t. My original post was for anyone seeking help with substance abuse - that AA is a good option for atheists who are friendly to religion and a bad option for those who are hostile.

If I had wanted to put the parent into the hostile to religion group then I would have said so.

Edit: I also never said anything about being hostile to religious people which is the way the parent decided to interpret it so they could take a swing at me.

[NAaddict167]

So I replied and then deleted my comment. But considering the parent’s reply I’m going to weigh in here.

I was actively hostile towards religion. In many ways I still am.

I’m still in A.A./N.A. I’m still working the steps. I’ve just got a year clean.

Absolutely nowhere in the big book does it say religion is required. In fact, it makes a purposeful effort to try to say the opposite.

That is literally the whole point of the “we agnostics” chapter.

AA/NA are not about religion. They’re about a spiritual solution to the disease of alcoholism/addiction.

Religion is not necessarily the same as spirituality. Religion is not required.

[reflectiv]

Former addict of opiates here, I've attended a lot of AA/NA meetings in the long ago past (8+ years ago).

They may not claim to be religious, but every single step mirrors the idea that you are to give up to a 'higher power' and to 'faithfully' follow the steps...etc...etc.

It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise...in reality its a thin veneer for a truly religious/faith based system. It's got religion all up in its business...the claim to irreligiosity is a fig leaf, in my experience.

I also truly hated their angle of making you feel like you are forever a victim/failure to addiction...that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life. In fact it's a good way to make you feel like shit and use again.

What I learned later on is that yes, you can let your past be your past...no I don't want to take opiates...but I also am no longer an 'addict'. I am me, and I don't consume addictive pills anymore.

Also, as an anecdote, over 8 years clean here...and that didn't happen till I gave up on AA/NA.

Edit: After reading a few more messages, this one in particular was on point and stated things better than I can: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553896

[iateanapple]

> It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise...

Exactly - it is taking a program that was religious and removing the more openly religious parts in order to try and help people who aren’t religious.

You can smell religion all over it.

> that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life.

With a Christian frame of reference it fits and makes sense - and isn’t framing you as a victim.

For others it can feel very weird and even possibly harmful and build a victim mentality to think of it that way.

[reflectiv]

I'd argue its harmful when Christians teach you to feel bad for being human.

This is much the same.

[iateanapple]

I think that’s fair - and so AA probably doesn’t fit your personality as well as it does others.

[bawolff]

If religion just "isn't your thing" I'm pretty sure that makes you an agnostic not an atheist.

However the majority of atheists in my exerience are a bit more mellow. You can fully believe there is no grand deity without being "hostile" to the belief.

As an example (that maybe is more generally relatable): I believe the world is round. I don't think I am hostile to the flat earthers. I think they are wrong based on evidence, but their ideas don't disgust me. I don't want to burn them at the stake or harass them. If they leave me alone I am content to leave them alone. So I dont think i am hostile to their beliefs. However i would never describe my relationship to the flat earth "theory" as "just not my thing".

[iateanapple]

> I don't think I am hostile to the flat earthers.

Good example - the average person is hostile to flat earthers. They would make certain negative character and intellectual judgements about them.

And they wouldn’t for example want them as a science teacher or textbook writer.

In fact the average person probably wouldn’t want to hear about flat earth theory at all!

That you would liken the religious to flat earthers is not a great sign...

[xnyan]

Why should they find an alternate group? I thought the purpose was to address alcohol addiction. And to what group should they go?

[ineedasername]

The AA treatment has a component that many atheists may interpret as religious or spiritual. If that's your interpretation, and you are actively hostile to that belief, then your own world view is not compatible with either the treatment path or the social group you will encounter. That is not going to be a high probability scenario for recovery, and it may interfere with others' recovery, and that's why you should find another group.

Which other group? That's a different question. There doesn't have to be an alternative for AA to be a bad option. Though as it turns out, there are many options. A little searching shows there are AA for athiest groups which, presumably, use a modified protocol.

[xnyan]

What I'm hearing is if you are hostile and rude, you should not participate (not trying to put words in your mouth). I agree.