[lstamour]

Having used Amazon Go once as a tourist, it was frictionless only because of the Amazon app. You can scan the app instead of a credit card (your card is already linked to Amazon for payment), and when you leave the app tells you what you bought. In my case it thought I bought a drink when all I did was browse the options, so when I saw this in the app, I deleted the drink from the receipt by saying I didn’t get one, and it corrected the receipt without any human interaction that I could see. The app was essential for me to go back, otherwise I’d assume the system was inaccurate and not worth the trouble.

[danShumway]

But, and I know I'm apparently in a minority here...

I don't want an app for my grocery store.

I do my shopping spread between 4 different grocery stores depending where in the area I'm closest to, what specifically I need, etc.. and I don't want an app for any of them. I already get pestered about loyalty cards, now I'm going to get pestered about installing my local Rite-Aid's mobile app?

[filoleg]

It doesn't even need to be a special app, it could just be another Apple Wallet/Android Wallet card. If you tried the Amazon Go app, it is literally just an app that displays a QR code that you use to scan when entering the store. That's literally it, no notifications, no other extra functionality, nothing. As soon as Apple Wallet/Android Wallet integrate it, it will become even more seamless.

A good example for people familiar with electric car charing is the ChargePoint integration. I have the app, but I never open it, and I don't even really need it (as I only use it for rare circumstances where I am in an unknown area and need to find a charging spot asap). Whenever I want to charge my car at a ChargePoint station, I just open up the ChargePoint card in Apple Wallet, NFC scan it, and that's it. It already knows that the ChargePoint card is associated with my account, so I can later open the app and see how charged my car is, what's the charging rate at the moment, my billing history, etc. If I don't have the app, I can check it on the web just as well.

[mikem170]

A QR code can be displayed as a saved image. The Amazon Go app on Android requires the following permissions:

  Identity
      find accounts on the device
      add or remove accounts

  Contacts
      find accounts on the device

  Location
      approximate location (network-based)
      precise location (GPS and network-based)

  Wi-Fi connection information
      view Wi-Fi connections

  Other
      receive data from Internet
      view network connections
      create accounts and set passwords
      full network access
      run at startup
      use accounts on the device
      control vibration
      prevent device from sleeping

That's actually not as bad as some other apps, but horribly insecure from my perspective. I avoid all such apps myself, and will do so as long as I can. I'll never know what an app like that is doing, and that is unacceptable on MY phone.

[danShumway]

I notice it's also labeled as displaying ads. And this is Amazon's debut offering. It's not going to get better from here as they get more adoption. I do not want this app on my phone.

Everything I know about about the mobile ecosystem tells me that if an app/card/integration is required for an unrelated service, it's going to go downhill over time. Everything I know about Amazon means that they are definitely going to eventually be advertising to me and pushing notifications and 'reminders' and whatever -- because they already do with the online store.

Even the charging example getting brought up as proof of this working: I can't imagine signing up for a special credit card that was required to fill up my car at a gas station. That's not innovative. The current system is I can use any credit card, or cash, or (increasingly) mobile pay at any gas station without any account with no decrease in quality of service. And with the current system, someone else can borrow my car without also needing to borrow my credit card or phone.

I'll stick my neck out and predict that over the next 3-5 years, ChargePoint's app and web interface are going to get progressively worse, and progressively more invasive. This is based purely on the knowledge that they require an online account and special credit card just to refill a car. I don't think there's any reason to have that business model other than a plan to eventually leverage the card/account in invasive ways.

[filoleg]

They require a special credit card? I connected my usual credit card from my bank to the account half a year ago and have been using it successfully with Apple Wallet just fine.

[danShumway]

I'm just going off of their FAQ[0]. I'll trust you as someone who actually uses the service.

Regardless, even linking my own cards, this is still kind of a crazy concept, isn't it? It's still strictly worse on nearly every single axis than a normal charge/gas station, where I can still just as easily pay with platforms like Apple/Google Wallet, but also with a spare twenty if I've left my phone at home or if I'm loaning my car to someone else.

It's very difficult to come up with a business model that says, "you must only pay us or interact with us in a special, tracker-friendly way" that isn't going to eventually become profitable by selling a lot of data or targeting you with ads. There are some exceptions to this rule, but they are very few and far between, and Amazon (and I suspect ChargePoint as well) are not among them.

In fact, you can already look at ChargePoint's privacy policy[1] and see that they're carving out terms that allow them to share your personal/location/purchase data with affiliates and partners, as well as to use your information to deliver tailored ads.

[0]: https://na.chargepoint.com/faqs#F8

[1]: https://na.chargepoint.com/privacy_policy

[filoleg]

I just checked the iOS version, and it requires none of those permissions. The only ones I have noticed were access to use cellular data + background app refresh. No contacts access, no location access, nothing. I guess the devs must have just went all out on the Android version.