[nostrademons]

This is the Internet, where you take whatever feedback you get with the appropriate grain of salt and either choose to improve or not. Most people on the public venues on the Internet - forums, blogs, comments, essays - are not looking to build relationships or establish trust. (There are some exceptions - I've made some great friendships with Internet friends - but they're usually more private niche forums than blogs or other publications with a wide readership.) They're looking to get their opinion out there, build a readership, perhaps influence public discourse, and maybe get some feedback on their ideas.

I've seen similar comments leveled at PG [1] and Zed Shaw [2], so I don't think it's just sexism.

[1] https://idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9275526

[Misdicorl]

Note that both your examples are

a) criticising content rather than delivery/tone

b) not the primary conversation around these two authors

Look to Linus Torvalds for a male example where delivery rather than content is often the primary conversation. That is how egregious the delivery must be for a male to get the tone police called on them

[nostrademons]

You may have something there. I went looking for the HN comments on Dabblers and Blowhards [1] (which, IMHO, is even more egregiously sanctimonious than Rachel's essay), but the top comment there was responding to content rather than tone. Only the 3 bottom-most comments remarked on tone.

I don't consider Linus Torvalds that vitriolic, BTW. Most of the time when he's angry he's trying to make a point. I think of Erik Naggum [2] or Poul Henning-Kemp when it comes to real vitriol on the Internet.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=238325

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1472002

[asveikau]

People have valid criticisms of Linus's delivery, but the content is often good. I tend to remember some of the technical arguments in those rants years after the fact, and cite them.

Keep in mind he did create the Linux kernel and git, so even if he delivers them inexpertly, even on a bad day, he has some technical insight.

All that said: I agree there is some gender bias showing up on this thread.

[Misdicorl]

Oh, of course! If Linus wasn't special nobody would tolerate his style. Women have to be special for society to tolerate sarcasm from them. I'm unsure how old I'll be before a woman like Linus will be recognized rather than shoved aside.

[DoreenMichele]

Thank you for your many excellent comments in this discussion. You fought the good fight. You basically won in that this thread long ago ceased being at the top of the page.

Take your winnings and go home. Linus is not above social censure. His team reined him in not hugely long ago and the comment you are hissing at agrees with your larger point that there's some gender bias happening here and was uncommonly reasonable and evenhanded. I upvoted it.

I'm trying to be supportive. I'm trying to tell you "You've done enough. Relax. Take a break. Feel okay about how this went down."

I mean if your mom is dying of cancer or something and screaming at internet strangers is good distraction from more serious problems, cool. Don't let me stop you.

But if the point was "Doreen is right: this thread shouldn't be at the top of the page!" well, it's not anymore. Job well done. Have a cold brew or whatever and feel okay about it.

[Misdicorl]

I'm not sure why my comment is interpreted as hissing/criticism. It was intended as elaboration and agreement. Oh well, people seem to have not liked it so I'll reconsider those types of posts in the future

[asveikau]

I think it's an excellent point that a woman with equivalent chops as Linus is less likely to be recognized for it. So I am glad you replied. Thank you.

[DoreenMichele]

In part because of the larger context. In part because it sounds like sarcasm, not like you are genuinely agreeing that Linus actually deserves special treatment because of his stature.

I've defended Linus once or twice. I'm also glad he chose to take some time off and rethink things.

I can't think of any women we give similar accommodation to. That doesn't mean they don't exist. But the reality is that Linus is in a league all his own. It just sounds catty to make comparisons to him in that fashion.

I imagine if we genuinely had a "female Einstein," she would be pretty unique and would carve out her own unique relationship to the world at large.

I'm sincerely not trying to bust your chops.

[DoreenMichele]

If you really want to shut me down and make me look like an absolute fool, you could list off the ten other women programmers who routinely hit the front page of HN that silly, pathetic little ole me completely missed.

I'm not getting into this argument about how it's not sexism because (bs example pretending men and women get treated exactly alike when everyone knows that's absolutely not true).

[neonate]

I don't know about 10, but 3 that come to mind right away are Julia Evans, Jessie Frazelle, and Windytan.

(Not disagreeing with you! I just thought it was an interesting question.)