[nnq]

> It has killed every government that even dared to discuss it. And politically it is utterly impossible to defend

Then pull it out of political discussion! We don't have political discussion about "how to hang people of color Q better" anywhere in the world (mostly) anymore because we've wrote it in the text of our f laws that violence and racial discrimination are forbidden! Not on the political menu anymore.

Same needs to happen with lots of stuff concerning climate, ecology, sustainability etc. - we need to restrict the political menu to only the right choices.

And use the states' monopoly on violence to enforce these choices.

[pjc50]

I have some very bad news for you: there are lots of people actively trying to work to bring those back on the menu. It's almost impossible to put things "beyond politics" so long as someone wants to bring them back.

[nnq]

Once some things are off the menu, people need to work really hard to change things. And, more importantly, violence can be used against those people - I mean throw-them-in-prison type of violence, not more. Just like with freedom - in order to preserve it, you need to, "paradoxically", shut some toxic persons' mouths forcefully (eg. "hate speech").

Yeah, sure, you can philosophise in the most general terms but that's not how you get people and companies stop doing wrong things. You get them when the people/entities who want to re-bring the despicable things back into discussion can be fined / closed / put-in-prison etc.

I don't argue for eco-fascism. But with some things we need to be ruthless, especially in order to be able to carry on our peaceful, understanding and democratic discussions concerning all the other things!