[ploxolo]

The opposite of hierarchies is not some blissful state of civilized anarchy, it is chaos, violence and free for all. If you think some leftist state is the solution, sorry for breaking it to you but they are highly hierarchical if not more than state tending toward classic liberalism. Most experiments in this vein have ended badly (millions dying), see communist China (now a hierarchical dictatorship btw), USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil (thankfully steering of peril right now).

[ubnt]

So, Bolsonaro is "thankfully steering Brazil of peril"?

[wpietri]

I agree that left-wing authoritarianism is as bad as right-wing authoritarianism. But thinking that the only alternative to hierarchical power is chaos is going to be one sort of authoritarianism or another.

As I explain elsewhere in this thread, one alternative of hierarchical authority is carefully limited, distributed power. There are historical examples of it working pretty well for hundreds of years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22415807

[luckylion]

A society with hyper exaggerated social classes, with voting rights only for property owners, indentured servitude, slavery and all that was "carefully limited" in its hierarchical authority?

[wpietri]

Sure. Which was mostly way better than what Europe was doing at the time. And which, more importantly, led us to keep seeking that "more perfect union". Where each generation has said, "Maybe we could do yet better. And here's how." And where quite often we have done better.