[TrinaryWorksToo]

The problem with Scroll is we trade one evil for another: instead of ads and trackers, we get legally dubious "AS IS" clauses in Terms of Service, and censorship-laden arbitration clauses that cannot be subject to oversight.

[arctictony]

CEO of Scroll here. It's really helpful to get this feedback, if we were to try and fuck people over through opaque moves hidden in our terms we'd lose half our business overnight and everyone here would quit.

Either way, I totally hear you on this stuff, first thing on the list is building members even more privacy/data controls so that if for any reason you think you don't trust us anymore, you can make sure that you're protected.

From there, making sure we can iterate on our Terms to make sure they live up to the best of what our members want is going to be key. We've been launched for less than a month so keep the feedback coming.

[jarofgreen]

> if we were to try and fuck people over through opaque moves hidden in our terms

Then why have them in your terms at all, if you never intend to use them? Just take them out right now.

[ericd]

Are there any concretely troubling parts to the terms that you saw?

[arghwhat]

Well, primarily:

> Scroll may, from time to time, change these Terms of Service, including the Privacy Policy. Such revisions shall be effective immediately and we will notify you if these changes are significant.

There is also the usual arbitration agreement.

[ThePhysicist]

That seems indeed non-compliant with many legislations. I think in the EU this would not be legal as you have to inform your customers about any changes in the terms and if you change them they have the right to end their contract with you.

This clause would otherwise allow them to raise prices tenfold without the consent of their customers.

Maybe they should revise this...

[jacques_chester]

They only accept US customers: https://intercom.help/scroll/en/articles/3344891-what-if-i-l...

[bfdm]

That is found in pretty much every TOS/PP on the internet, including my own. Do you have a specific problem with that language? If so, how do you use the internet?

I don't mean that question in a "how do you even" sense. I mean, what are your typical internet habits, given feelings about such terms?

[arghwhat]

Language being ubiquitous does not make it okay. ToSs are commonly full of crap, to the extend of most of them being invalid, hence every one of them having their "survival" clause.

This specific section renders the ToS pointless from the perspective of a user, as it may fundamentally change on a whim. Tomorrow, the company may change the ToS to sell you out for easy money, throwing away your private life and privacy rights before you'll have a chance to review and cancel. Even without a company turning on you like that, you will have to actively monitor the ToS and possibly cancel your service with a moments notice.

After all, only some changes will trigger a notice, and even then only a notice.

As for how I use the internet: I just don't sign up for/install a lot of things. If I do sign up for/install something, it's only if I can accept/live with the terms. I don't have social media accounts (Self-hosted Matrix/Mastodon not counted), I don't use random cloud services, my app list is roughly limited to government/bank stuff, a single parking app, Matrix and duolingo.

I also live in a region of the world where EULA's are only used as toilet paper, so that takes care of the worst part.

[TrinaryWorksToo]

I am dubious that the "AS IS" warrenty clause can be enforced, as providing any kind of support or claim implies that you expect the product to function as advertised.

Arbitration agreements trouble me, even though they are pervasive. In particular for a product that is trying to offer a better alternative to opaque tracking and advertising techniques it appears to be another way to hide wrongdoing.

Hope this helps.

[ericd]

It does, thanks!