[nutjob2]

The problem was that the Greeks had got themselves deeply, calamitously into debt. That the "solution" was awful or ineffective really is not relevant, since it's entirely a consequence of the former. At any time the Greeks could have said no to the proposed solution, but they didn't because they feared an even worse fate.

The responsibility for Greece's situation must stay with Greece, unless they forgo the freedom to make their own decisions (about lending money). Nothing else works or makes sense logically. Freedom and taking responsibility are two sides of the same coin.

[JackFr]

> The problem was that the Greeks had got themselves deeply, calamitously into debt.

To be clear then, any 'bailout' of Greece is truly a bailout not of Greece, but their creditors.

[nutjob2]

Not at all, that's a side effect. If what you say were strictly true, then why would Greece bother? Let the creditors burn.

Of course the reason Greece agreed is that the attendant inability to borrow after the default would be much worse for Greece than the lenders. That really goes to the heart of the situation Greece had got itself into: default would not save them.