[Frondo]

Taxes are not theft, they are an agreed-upon payment for being a member of a society.

Your parents, as guardians of a newborn, made your initial decision for you to bring you into the society.

You maintained your consent by retaining your citizenship when you reached an age of majority.

Taxes are the price you pay for retaining the benefits of your citizenship.

Not theft.

[leetcrew]

this is sort of like the "wage slavery is consensual because both sides agreed" argument. what realistic alternative does someone who doesn't consent to taxation have? renouncing US citizenship triggers a large tax on the total value of your assets if you are wealthy. even if you're not wealthy, the US charges a flat fee of about $2000 for the process. you might literally be unable to afford renouncing your citizenship.

even after that, the IRS can come back and harass you at any time if they suspect you of tax fraud, and most foreign countries will cooperate with them.

[burnte]

If you're looking to leave the country over taxes, why the hell would them trying to tax your assets bother you? You're leaving. You are welcome to leave, no one is forcing you. It's the same argument with bringing jobs to dead small towns. No one ever promised everyone could get any job anywhere, sometimes you have to move. No one ever promised you could live in any country without help paying for the upkeep.

[leetcrew]

I think you may be missing the point of my post.

pragmatically, I don't object to the idea of taxation. the government provides some useful services and it needs a way of funding them. I'm also not actually interested in renouncing my citizenship, as I personally find US citizenship to be worth the tax obligations.

what I do object to is the common "social contract" argument for why taxes are legitimate. in particular, I strongly object to the idea that I "consent" to taxation merely by having been born here. I haven't consented to anything; I submit because an overwhelmingly powerful entity compels me.

[burnte]

"I submit because an overwhelmingly powerful entity compels me."

This is also the "I don't want to be told what to do" argument, which PERSONALLY I find immature. Please don't misunderstand, I'm not calling you a name, we're having a reasonable discussion, I'm just saying that no one likes being given orders, but it's a part of life. You DO have the option of leaving and going somewhere without taxes. You're submitting because you have to in order to be where you want to be.

[Kaiyou]

Yes, you are submitting because you have to, hence nobody is losing sleep over dealing with it in an appropriate way. You wouldn't submit if you didn't have to.

[Frondo]

Your parents consented on your behalf, as guardians are legally capable of doing for those in their care, when you were born. You affirmed that by remaining here, enjoying the privileges of citizenship, when you reached the age of majority.

There is no written contract when you sit down to eat in a restaurant, and yet you are obliged to pay after your meal.

[Kaiyou]

They are a forced payment. To add insult to injury they are wasted on stupid things in a very inefficient way all the time.