[gamblor956]

I would rather pay employees a living wage as part of a sustainable business than deal with the hypergrowth VC bullshit that destroys entire market segments with nothing to show for it except ruined lives after the startups finally implode.

[bobbytran]

There will be no sustainable business. Regulations and taxes strangle your business before it gets to that point.

If you look at the business landscape of Sweden, it mostly consists of large multinational corporations with bases outside of Sweden (IKEA is a good example of this) and government jobs.

It doesn't leave much room for individuals wanting to start a business and actually having an chance at success.

[pnako]

It's a country of 10 millions that builds jet fighters (Gripen), 5G technology with Ericsson, Minecraft, etc. The current NASDAQ trading platform was also developed in Sweden.

I would say they're doing very well when it comes to business and technology.

[bobbytran]

All government funded operations except Minecraft..which is now owned by Microsoft.

Funny..the Original owner of Minecraft never stayed in Sweden with his billion dollars.

My point still stands: you can start a company in Sweden, but will never be able to grow it to sustainable levels unless you incorporate elsewhere (or get purchased).

All examples I've seen so far have only helped prove my point.

[piva00]

Spotify is homegrown in Sweden. King.com is homegrown in Sweden. Klarna is homegrown in Sweden and so on and on.

I don't think you have any data to back your claims, reading through your comments it gives me "I feel it is this way" vibes and I don't think

[bobbytran]

King.com is incorporated in Malta. Presumably to get around taxes in Sweden and Spotify is incorporated in Luxomburg. Stop changing the topic.

My point is that you can't grow a company in Sweden and every single example you have just given me are companies that left Sweden after growing to a certain stage.

I think I'm done arguing my point because facts and data dont seem to matter here and it's funny how such a seemingly intelligent community can be utterly blinded by politics.

The reality is that I would never incorporate a company in Sweden and incorporating pretty much anywhere else on earth would give me an advantage.

[piva00]

Again: as ANY big company looking to evade taxes, this is not a fault of Sweden.

Why are most SV tech companies in the US incorporated in Delaware? Is it because California sucks and should lower their tax rates or employer obligations to the bottom of the pit that Delaware created?

You never replied my other comment about companies that are still incorporated in Sweden such as Volvo, Electrolux, etc., so you can be done as much as you want peddling your point of view, it doesn't make it right.

Edit: checking your comment history tells me that you call what Bernie Sanders is pushing for as "socialism" and you use that as an excuse to vote for Trump 2020, come on.

[Apocryphon]

How was Spotify invented, in your mind?

[bobbytran]

You made my point again. If you look at the wikipedia page, it's not incorporated in Sweden. It's a multinational corporation with an office in Sweden.

[yellowapple]

It's literally headquartered in Stockholm. That's like saying a Silicon Valley startup isn't actually in California or subject to California's laws solely because it incorporated in Delaware.

[gamblor956]

So are many multinationals, for tax reasons (not labor law reasons) related to something called IP migration that let corporations evade taxes on local income.

Labor laws affect a company if they have employees in that jurisdiction. It doesn't matter if your HQ is somewhere else.

[piva00]

HQ is still here in Stockholm, it grew from Sweden up to the point it was incorporated outside of Sweden to go public, because shareholders will be moaning about it. It is still a very Swedish company, paying taxes in Sweden.

[bobbytran]

Incorporated outside of Sweden is the key here. It seems people are downvoting me because they dont want to hear the truth...but other commenters keep making my point quite nicely.

Incorporating outside of Sweden allows big companies to enjoy tax benefits and then hire Engineers from Sweden at an average of 50,000USD to 68,0000USD (these numbers can easily be found on Google).

They get lower taxes, a cheap labor pool, and the company isn't limited through draconian taxes and regulations, it only has to deal with it at a satellite office. It's a win-win.

Now show me a company that's large, started in Sweden, and is still in Sweden many years later.

[piva00]

But it's the same exact thing that any larger Western corporation do when they become multinational, be it an American, British, Australian, they go out and create multiple tax schemes to avoid their duties, it's not a matter of Sweden specifically having high taxes or not, it's a matter of a systemic issue for tax evasion that large corporations can afford to abuse.

Electrolux, Ericsson and Volvo are still incorporated and have their HQs in Sweden.

[wsy]

Now, by moving the goalposts, you lost your initial argument. Sure it might be the case that Swedish companies, at some stage of their growth, tend to incorporate in another country.

Still the benefits Swedish employees experience don't seem to be in the way of getting a startup successfully up and running in Sweden.

[gamblor956]

Spotify still pays taxes in Sweden. Incorporating doesn't let you avoid income taxes in your HQ country or avoid labor laws, it just lets you play around with the taxes you pay on your foreign income.