[belorn]

Using the same logic, they could subpoena the grave that the body is buried in as the existence of such grave is a forgone conclusion (a shovel and dirt found in the car, a hole in the ground must exist) and thus would not be a testimony. The accused in that case is also a witness in that they witnessed the grave where the body rest. If they lead the police to a different hole then analyze of the dirt can prove contempt of the court.

The rule make very little sense. I would not bet in favor of it continuing for long. The whole idea that the prosecutor is only asking for the container and not the content was extremity transparent to begin with, and judges who have rejected that argument have said just that. In that case the conclusion the judges made is that a request for the container (ie the unencrypted device) is the same as a request for the information itself, and thus should be seen as such.

[SpicyLemonZest]

There's no pretense that the prosecutor isn't asking for the content. Of course they are. It's just not a Fifth Amendment violation for the government to look at content you've written, even if that content incriminates you.

[belorn]

Asking an accused to provide that content directly is tantamount to testimony, as the Eleventh Circuit concluded. To quote: "the decryption and production would be tantamount to testimony by Doe of his knowledge of the existence and location of potentially incriminating files; of his possession, control, and access to the encrypted portions of the drives; and of his capability to decrypt the files."

It all comes down to the duck test. Is the request for the decrypted container similar as asking directly for the content to be written down by the accused, or spoken about in the form of a testimony? Does it has the same purpose and the same result?

[dsfyu404ed]

So if they already have a pretty darn good idea you murdered someone and the government asks you where the body is and you refuse to tell them and they lock you up then that's not a 5th amendment violation?

In the hard drive case and the hypothetical body location case the government is trying to compel speech that directly leads to incriminating evidence. That seems like a solidly 5th amendment issue to me.