[wruza]

> Everyone is basically complaining about complexity for applications, which are more than just a server-rendered form or message board (which is a way less complex applications compared to outlook or slack, where "realtime notification" is a requirement).

But we did more than just a server-rendered forms in delphi, vb and others! The hate is not for js or html (well, in this case at least). The hate is for invention of techniques which are hard to explain, follow, justify, implement and reason about.

Web had an enormous amount of seasoned and veteran developers around the world and threw this resource out the window by going a new fancy way of history repeating, which presumably no one did before and no one knew names for new methods when they appeared.

React/Redux is ST by the way, implemented in a language completely unready for that concept, but it’s unclear if its authors were aware of this at the time it was born.