[quaunaut]

Isn't this largely what Patreon is, though? And there's a lot of people who are doing surprisingly well off of Patreon despite low subscriber counts.

I'd think the trick is to find the right niche- if you're too generic, you're up against the big personalities.

[Proziam]

Patreon is quite a bit of work and requires constant upkeep to maintain a steady income flow. It's really no different from Twitch subscriptions in that regard. It does a better job of monetizing primarily because of the easily customized tiers, and secondarily because the platform specifically caters to paid content rather than free.

That said, many of patreon's most financially successful users are producing content that isn't suitable for platforms like Twitch and Youtube.

[redis_mlc]

I commented in detail on this a few months ago ...

What Proziam wrote is a little off, at least as far as music goes.

Hundreds of musicians/music vloggers are working full-time from Patreon/Adsense once they exceed 100,000 Youtube subscribers and upload weekly/biweekly and have 100+ Patrons.

Patreon produces a reliable income stream (for rent, etc.) while Adsense fluctuates but adds up ($1,000 - $5,000/million views typically.)

What I have heard with Twitch is that you need to be online continuously or the audience moves on.

> IIRC the 1k true fans idea was walked back by its original author

That was from a time decades ago when customer acquisition was expensive. With Youtube/Adsense it's not that hard, and one could experiment with Facebook targeting.

And any time somebody uses the phrase "walked back", I've found the author didn't have a nuanced understanding of the subject.

[Proziam]

100 Patrons, even if they contribute well above average, say $25 (after platform fees/expenses/taxes), is still only $2,500 per month. There are some places in the US where that wouldn't be liveable, let alone offer enough stability for a person to enjoy a stable lifestyle. Of course, if you live in a low cost of living area you can make things fly that otherwise wouldn't. But even with that consideration in mind, how many places could you live a 'normal' life on 30k?

I've worked with musicians as well, including some with global recognition and (many) millions of views and song plays. From what I've seen, turning 100k Youtube subscribers into 100k income per year is far from the norm. Plenty of creators in that size bracket quit, suggesting it's not particularly sustainable.

That said, if you can, I'd love to get some more insight into the creators you feel are getting the most out of their effort, and how they're achieving their results!

[redis_mlc]

I'll go into some more detail so people can picture how it works in 2020 better.

100k subscribers is the gateway to really making it on YT.

Above that you start going self-viral, so some artists have snowballed very fast (in months) from 100k to 300k+. It's like they're on YT, but their channel is "their own private island" and takes on a life of its own.

1) US artists will need to live at home (or in a van) or be very frugal to make it with the numbers I provided - but it's doable, and they will get a lot of free gear.

And they'll be full-time musicians, which is living the dream for most.

However, low-COL artists can (and do) earn the average local salary, plus free gear. So they have it all figured out.

2) US (and European) musicians will have a hard time touring as the bandleader on that income, since it's pay-to-play now for non-headliners in the US, typically $500 per show, and often T-shirt sales are restricted (see Sarah Longfield's interviews for the details.)

So that means keep uploading on Patreon/YT, or have your sponsors/fans in each city put you up.

3) "Be your own label.", "Own your publishing.", etc.

The important thing to realize is that there is no label deal available for new musicians (the exception would be super-strong writers) in 2020, and even if you signed one, advances have to be repaid. And oh ya, "360 deals" go after your Patreon and YT/Adsense, publishing and show revenue now - just say no.

So go whole hog on Patreon/YT/Adsense (ie. be your own label) because it's not like there is another funding option for most people, aside from a few guys making it as contract performers (ie. paying their dues) for regional touring bands.

See Rhett Shull's YT channel to learn more about that - he's a road dog contract hired gun guitarist with a knack for YT vlogging. Hats off, man, and congrats on the 100+k subs!

Also see Yvette Young's (from San Jose) meteoric rise - she just got an Ibanez signature guitar in her 20's!

[LanceH]

Twitch counts it as a subscription if you use the free "subscription" from Amazon Prime. The thing is that it has to be manually applied every month. So if he's off for a couple days, very few people will resubscribe if they're not on his channel -- because he's off. It's not like 40k cancelled a subscription at once, their gift ran out and most re-upped as soon as he was back on a couple days later.

[nangz]

Yep, I subscribe to a couple of podcast patreons.. for $5 a month for 5-10 hours of good content it's a no-brainer... Patreon.com/redscare It's basically just 2 women mouthing off, it's funny though. They do well out of it.