[knightofmars]

This ignores the fact that markets fail under certain circumstances. Removing regulation would not remove the fact that a significant portion of healthcare is a natural monopoly[1] due to the fact that a significant portion of the population cannot "shop around" when incurring medical costs and the starting costs to enter the healthcare market as a provider are high: provide adequate facilities, hiring staff, purchase of equipment

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

[jfengel]

Medicine is pretty much every economist's go-to example of inelastic demand. And the go-to thing to ignore when saying "markets will fix everything".

[mixmastamyk]

Not all medical care is emergency care, and after a while folks learn which provider is a better value. They hear other's outcomes as well. Even if they don't choose perfectly every time, word gets out eventually.

Pricing transparency is necessary to the process, however. So, the assertion that folks "can't shop around" is exaggerated and about to become less true with the transparency law.

[Retric]

I think US dentistry is probably the best example of US heathcare, but it’s unusual in several ways. Most notably it’s not been part of standard heath insurance coverage and it’s mostly small independent practices. Together that’s keeping prices reasonable and bureaucracy to a minimum.

You get some shopping around, but many people will stick with the same dentist for years if not decades.

[knightofmars]

Nice, a down-vote without addressing the content and the reference to support said content. But hey, what do actual economists know about markets and monopolies.

[strbean]

The downvotes are flowing freely nowadays on HN. I think the downvote threshold could use a massive increase -_-

[knightofmars]

Haha, down-vote to that one too. Feel free to address the original criticism, I'm waiting to have an actual debate instead of an naive emotion fueled down-vote fest.

[knightofmars]

Got it, you're admitting you were wrong through your actions. Thank you for that, it's refreshing to see people that are willing to accept a different viewpoint and adjust their own beliefs when new information is provided.

[Retric]

I upvoted your first comment and downvoted the next 3. It’s not a question of what your saying, but how your saying it. Try actually reading though the guidelines and thinking about what makes a comment worth reading. Ex: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[knightofmars]

You're right I got carried away there. The up/down vote system amuses me a bit too much sometimes. I'll file this one away to remember in the future.

[big_chungus]

I didn't downmod your original comment; even had I wanted to, I couldn't as it was a reply to my own (same applies to your reply to that one). You really can't believe that more than one person disagrees with you? I did downmod the second two because they were snarky and rude; someone not replying instantly is not an indication of abandoning debate. It's not as though there's a notification system on HN, and people sometimes get busy.

With respect to your natural monopoly argument, they typically occur when there are very high start-up costs. There are other cases where economies of scale are significant, but very few where they are infinite. Even Amazon, a company that occupies much of the e-commerce market and is well known for its highly-efficient supply chain, is having trouble maintaining them indefinitely. I think we're in violent agreement that the high start-up costs of medical practices and hospitals prevent competition, and I was advocating for removing most of the regulation on the medical field. Another example: the AMA is a horrible gov't-sanctioned monopoly that hugely increases medical costs; most procedures can be done by someone with a few months' training (see the military). Healthcare is one of the few industries that hasn't mastered "mass production" of procedures in spite of the fact that many surgeries are similar.

> healthcare is a natural monopoly due to the fact that a significant portion of the population cannot "shop around"

Except that doesn't mean there is a natural monopoly. If there are a dozen hospitals and you get in an ambulance you'll get rushed to the nearest one that has the right doctors (most major hospitals have most urgent stuff covered). While consumer choice is probably reduced here, it's not as though the ambulances all take patients to a certain place.

The point I think you were getting at is that most people have limited choice because they are often treated in time-sensitive situations. However, about two percent of healthcare spending is on such emergency care [0]. Most procedures give people at least some time to find options, get second opinions, etc.

Natural monopolies (aside from those caused by regulation) are caused by lower long-run average total costs than someone else, industries where economies of scale are nearly infinite. Even those that can't be "disrupted" by building a competitor that sells the same product can be supplanted by newer technology. For instance, many people and companies are exploring setting up solar-powered, battery-backed microgrids that would create serious competition with the government-sanctioned monopolistic utilities. In other words, while high start-up costs will certainly delay competition, they won't prevent it.

> I'll file this one away to remember in the future.

Care to elaborate?

[0]: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/oct/28/nick-gille...

[knightofmars]

First, thank you for responding and second don't take my idiotic self-amusement with the downvote/upvote nonsense as anything other than my own failure in that moment.

> Care to elaborate?

This was in response to the comment by Retric calling out my idiot behavior. Which, I agreed with.

> Another example: the AMA is a horrible gov't-sanctioned monopoly that hugely increases medical costs; most procedures can be done by someone with a few months' training (see the military). Healthcare is one of the few industries that hasn't mastered "mass production" of procedures in spite of the fact that many surgeries are similar.

Very good point. Reducing costs through other measures definitely are a valid approach. This is one I agree with.

>The point I think you were getting at is that most people have limited choice because they are often treated in time-sensitive situations. However, about two percent of healthcare spending is on such emergency care [0]. Most procedures give people at least some time to find options, get second opinions, etc.

This is true in part. However, mobility and access are often very limited to a significant portion of the population due to ability to travel, lack of time to take off work to travel, as well as the type of insurance a person has. If our society was more inclined to provide the ability for people who financially would struggle if they took a day let alone multiple days off of work to shop around to reduce medical costs this would make sense. But that is not the society we live in.