[smnrchrds]

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles.

You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced close to doctor salaries. Let's not pretend Canada is the outlier—US is.

I am not saying US is wrong and the rest of the world is right or vice versa in figuring out the correct price for tech work. I am just saying that there are two schools of thought, one the US, the other the rest of the world, and I am sure both have good reasons for their approach.

[sytelus]

There are no two schools of thought. There are no two "approaches". It's simple economics. Companies don't decide pay X, they have to pay X. In US, there are genuine software products company and software products happen to scale naturally and make a shit ton of money. In most other countries, software engineers are hired merely as IT guys for "main" businesses like insurance or government. They don't scale.

[alexgmcm]

But how does this explanation work when you compare Facebook/Amazon etc. devs working in European offices to those working in the USA.

They are both working on the same products, but outside the USA the pay is a lot worse.

[_5uxp]

Except Switzerland, In Europe they're literally robbed from the salary side and not much other benefits either.

[cmdshiftf4]

>The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced close to doctor salaries.

This is incorrect. Good software developers in Poland, and to some extent the Ukraine, are enjoying salaries comparable with doctors there, if not more.

[ptr]

Same in Sweden, good developers definitely make more than doctors, especially if we consider total compensation.

[sk0g]

How much would a good developer make? I'm looking to move to Sweden from Australia, and from what I saw there was a lot of equality in wages/ compression towards a mean for most fields.

Like in Norway, it seemed like SEs made 1.5-2x what a retail worker would make. Makes for a happier society maybe, but I do want to live a fairly lavish life if possible, and Australia definitely allows for that!

[bobbytran]

That would be fine. If the cost of living matched these lower salaries.

[smnrchrds]

That's what I meant by relative terms. Relative to cost of living, American tech workers get paid much more than any tech workers anywhere else in the world. American tech workers get paid close to American doctors and get to enjoy doctor-level prosperity. Canadian doctors, in relative terms, get paid about as much as American doctors and get to enjoy similar levels of prosperity as them. Canadian tech workers, however, don't get paid as much as Canadian doctors, but as much as Canadian engineers, so they get to enjoy a lower level of prosperity. Canadian engineers get paid, in relative terms, close to American engineers.

Anywhere in the world, with the exception of the US, this is the case. US the outlier. Whether it proves the be the outlier that reverts to mean or one that the mean reverts to remains to be seen. I personally think it would be the former. But I don't have strong opinions on it one way or another.

[barry-cotter]

> Canadian doctors, in relative terms, get paid about as much as American doctors and get to enjoy similar levels of prosperity as them.

No they don't.

> Canadian doctors still make dramatically less than U.S. counterparts: study

> Despite recent fee hikes, Canadian doctors still lag dramatically far behind their American counterparts in income, according to a new study that also underscores the wide pay gap in both countries between front-line “primary-care” physicians and much-wealthier surgical specialists.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-doctors-still-...

> Anywhere in the world, with the exception of the US, this is the case. US the outlier. Whether it proves the be the outlier that reverts to mean or one that the mean reverts to remains to be seen.

The US has been the richest country in the world in terms of average individual consumption (not income, some small countries like Norway have higher incomes) since independence and before. It's been at the technological frontier since the 1940's at the latest, and very close to it its entire existence. There may be mean reversion in the long run but given the greater share of young people, the best higher education system in the world and a relatively open immigration system there's little reason to believe it'll change anytime soon.

[hylaride]

> The US has been the richest country in the world in terms of average individual consumption (not income, some small countries like Norway have higher incomes) since independence and before

You’re wrong. After the civil war it’s arguable and it’s certainly true after 1900, but American policies favoring agriculture (thanks to romantic notions from Jefferson among others) retarded widespread industrialization in the US until much later than the UK, France, and Germany.

[cmdshiftf4]

>Canadian doctors, in relative terms, get paid about as much as American doctors and get to enjoy similar levels of prosperity as them.

This is again incorrect. Canada has a significant issue with brain drain in medicine as grads, like their CS counterparts, head south for better salaries and a better quality of life.

[smnrchrds]

It used to, but this is no longer the case:

https://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/26/E898

[Eridrus]

The US is an outlier on this, but that is precisely why it is able to attract employees from the entire world.

[toephu2]

> The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced close to doctor salaries.

Actually, in the U.S. it is common for a FANG worker's salary to surpass that of doctors'.

[user5994461]

Actually, not at all. It's just a myth from naive tech workers.

Googlers might get 200k but doctors routinely break 400k. Doctors are quite ahead even when you factor in 100k in RSU (which not everybody gets and past stock performance is not an indicator of future performance).

Noting it's H1B data so 10-20% below local salaries. Plus doctors can work anywhere in the country, not just in the city where there is google and facebook.

Google https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=GOOGLE+LLC

Versus some iowa and maine healthcare company https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=EASTERN+MAINE+ME... https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=IOWA+PHYSICIANS+...

[refurb]

All the high paying doctors are usually specialists in some hard to break into specialty. Your average family doctor is probably making somewhere in the $200k while they bust their asses paying of $300k in student loans.

If you can land a FAANG job, your total comp (after education costs) will outstrip all but the highest paid physicians.

[anonymoushn]

200k is around entry level all-in comp at Google. RSUs are not in h1b data.