[skinkestek]

It might be just as quick.

But using modern Javascript frameworks makes you completely dependent on Javascript, unless you want to put in some effort to get server side rendering working). And as every good web developer back in 2009 could tell you this is a bad idea as it makes sure the app can never approach the gold standard: to work in every browser (and work better in modern browsers). In fact it is so bad now that we are repeating the IE6 problems even though all major prowser have all the APIs we could only dream of back in 2009.

Here's a secret: I'd say it is still a bad idea to use Javascript application frameworks on most web sites, and possibly many web apps but it is really nice for consultants, training providers and developers who need job security ;-)

As a full stack developer and a consultant who care about the web and about my clients there are times when I can recommend frontend applications but mostly I just hold my nose, accept what sales have agreed with the customer and try to make the problems as small as possible ;-)

[monoideism]

First of all, I wasn't referring to using any JS framework. I was talking about vanilla JS. Did you know that you can use JS modules now in every major modern browser (Chrome, Edge, Firebox), with no build tool required? Now of course, for production deployment, you'll want to do a build so you can hit older browsers and less common browsers, and/or for performance reasons.

And yes, for "brochure sites", nobody should be using anything except for a static site with bits of progressive enhancement Javascript. Agreed.

On the other hand, you use the word "app". For a true app, you're going to need a JS framework. Trying to build an actual app, like Gmail or Slack, is a fool's errand using only server-side rendering. It's possible, but why would you want to do that to yourself? And even then, the user experience would be awful.

I really think web devs need to do a better job both among themselves and for the clients in differentiating between informational sites and brochureware, and true web applications (usually desktop app replacements, or related). The former should be built using static site generators and just bits of JS, whereas no-one is going to try to build a Slack competitor using a static site generator. There are a few projects I've seen that fall in the middle of the two, but those are relatively rare. Most of the time it's very clear if you're building a site or an app.

[rawfan]

I think you misunderstood. The previous poster meant modern Javascript WITHOUT a framework. These days I would just go with AlpineJS, tbh. It’s a mini-framework that solves the most common problems. Best thing for people who don’t want to write js at all.