[coldtea]

>People really have to grow out of this.

Actually, they should grow to the opposite direction. They're not "rebellious teenagers" who "don't need nobody". And delivery food + home alone, with "relations" mainly on the web is not a lifestyle.

That's how you end with this:

https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/loneliness-epidemic-c...

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-loneliness-epidemic-...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2019/05/03/millennials...

And how people end up discovered dead in their apartment for weeks, with nobody caring earlier, and their pets having chewed on them...

>Once you are sad, desperate, sick you have to come out of it as quick as possible with what is available to you. It is your responsibility before yourself and the world, like taking shower or brushing your teeth.

If you mean people should stop abusing others when they don't need help, sure.

If you mean it as stated above, that's as far removed from humanity as possible. Some loner animals, sure, they might do this. We built society and civilisation to do better than that.

[mapcars]

Where exactly in my post you've read about "rebellious teenagers who don't need anybody" or "removed from humanity"?

[coldtea]

The idea that having someone help you when you are "sad, desperate, sick" is something people "really have to grow out of".

The rest is like a naive self-help book, heal yourself style. Yes, some people play sad to manipulate others. But it's not like everybody is like some unique snowflake who can't get what they want and use that trick.

No, there are tons of actual sadness, sickness, depression (situational and pathological), need, etc out there, and there's nothing wrong in asking or giving help in such cases, in fact, it's what makes us human (or at least social animals, since other social animals will help their own too).

People needed help, asked for it, and (sometimes) got it, from friends, community, etc, even back when they survived horrible threats, witnessed (or even fought) in 2-3 wars each, and had self-reliance skills up the wazoo. It's not just the case with unique snowflakes who can't get what they want and throw a tantrum, as implied ("I say to grow out - because as children most of us learned the trick to pretend sad to get attention and it developed into all sorts of manipulations. When you don't get what you want, for whatever reasons - that is just it, to become sad or joyful is your reaction, it just shows your level of maturity in this world.")

Let's put it this way:

I agree that many people should learn to appreciate being alone, do things for themselves, not bother others for minor stuff and cry wolf, and depend on others for their whims, grow up and mature in this regard, etc.

But that's not all the people, all the time. All the people includes totally mature and otherwise self-reliant people, who do need help, assistance, empathy, etc. That's part of being human, not a sole trait of being a parasite to others.

Heck, even marines ask for help, depend on each others, and even share their feelings and help cheer up the other - and without those things they'd be far less effective.

[mapcars]

>No, there are tons of actual sadness, sickness, depression (situational and pathological), need, etc out there

Ok tell me where is this all sadness and depression originated from? Is "my life does not go the way I want it to go" not the only reason for it? Can you name any other reason?

>People needed help, asked for it

I'm not saying you should not ask for help, nothing wrong with it. What I am talking about is at least genuinely try to see if you can handle it by yourself. Not through rejection or denial, but actually introspecting into why am I in this state? what happened? what did I expect? why it did not happen the way I expected? why do I give this so much importance? and so on. It won't happen in 5 minutes, even "naive self-help" needs to be learned and exercised to start working.

See how you learned to walk, you fall down so many times but kept trying, your parents helped you, they hold your arms and so on. But you genuinely kept trying until it worked one day. If you would not genuinely try and force parents to carry you around you wouldn't be able to walk today. Now people in their 30es are still not even trying to learn how to handle basic emotions and forcing others to help, when are they going to start? This is what I mean by growing up.

One more thing about asking help - one must see that's it in a way a trap because one day help might not come. In this sense it is better to learn to do what is most important by yourself. And I see my own thoughts and feelings as extremely important aspect of my life. Maybe I can not handle cooking or riding a car but I make sure I can handle the way I feel.

[coldtea]

>Ok tell me where is this all sadness and depression originated from? Is "my life does not go the way I want it to go" not the only reason for it? Can you name any other reason?

That's so broad a reason to cover everything. Since any kind of "need help" situation would be automatically also a "my life does not go the way I want it to go" situation, no matter how legitimate it is.

But a phrase like "my life does not go the way I want it to go" makes it sound like people would ever need help, feel depressed etc for frivolous reasons -- like "my life does not go the way I want it to go, I wanted to be rock star and I'm not", or "my life does not go the way I want it to go, I want to sit at home, play videograms, and not have to work", or "my life does not go the way I want it to go, I want all the women to want me" etc.

There's also unemployment, disease (including cancer), loss of somebody, accident, and all kinds of other things people need help to get over.

Can some get over them by themselves alone? Sure. But having to do, and considering asking for help a weakness, makes for a worse society, of selfish distrustful loners, with no compassion for others, no solidarity, and ultimately, just a bunch of individuals, not a community or a society.

Does that mean that people should also try all their best to help themselves (and not just expect all the help from others)? Of course.

[mapcars]

>and considering asking for help a weakness

Did I say something like this?