[alvarezo]

Sorry, I thought it was quite self-evident, although probably mostly for people having to use this technology. I don't want to get into flame wars or extensive argumentation but from my personal experience dealing with Java in the past, both from the application user's side as well as development side has been such a pain. It was a complete bloatware package, slow and ugly, RAM hungry, disk I/O hungry. Even the java.com website is ugly as hell and not changed during the last 15 years. Doesn't really increase confidence for improved experience.

[oarsinsync]

You could replace java with website development and it would probably still be true. I suppose the tense also needs to change. Lets try it:

> from my personal experience dealing with web development in the present, both from the application user's side as well as development side is such a pain. It is a complete bloatware package, slow and ugly, RAM hungry, disk I/O hungry.

I think that fits!

[slantyyz]

I think it depends on the developer more than the platform.

On the enterprise side, I've seen a lot of hot garbage. But I've also seen a lot of good stuff.

DBVisualizer, while not having the prettiest interface, is a pretty fast and functional application built on Java.