[grecy]

I've driven from Alaska to Argentina[0] and right around Africa[1], and I've met a bunch of people that have explored a lot more of the planet than I have.

Without fail, every single person that has been to Iran rates it their number one country, and the one they most want to go back to. The people are so friendly, the culture so rich, the landscape and architecture so stunning.

I absolutely can not wait to go.

[0] theroadchoseme.com/expedition-overview

[1] theroadchoseme.com/africa-expedition-overview

[complianceowl]

I really want to visit Iran, as well. As an American, I love the look on people's faces when I tell them that.

I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake.

Peter Santenello opened my eyes to Iran. I couldn't believe how pro-America so many Iranians are; the culture seems so rich, and the people so pleasant.

I highly, highly, highly recommend you check out Peter's vlog series in Iran (https://www.youtube.com/user/santenello?app=desktop).

[Mirioron]

>I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake.

To a degree they are one and the same though. The government still requires the consent of the governed.

[rtkwe]

In a 'if you really hated it why haven't you overthrown it/left?' way? Authoritarian regimes live and die by their ability to coerce/fabricate consent and quash discontent. Until something significantly weakens the government's ability to quash rebellion auth regimes usually stand.

The looseness of the restrictions could kind of help because it gives people an outlet so it's not so bad they're ready to take up arms but the regime still has a ready cudgel to charge people with.

[0x0]

Tell that again to someone who lived under German occupation in ww2?

[Mirioron]

I have. I am from one of those countries. After WW2 we were occupied by the Soviets as well. My grandfather spent a significant chunk of his life in gulags. You can't lay all of the blame of a country on the government alone, because the government doesn't work without the people. It doesn't matter whether you're dealing with a democracy or autocracy. Bombs don't build themselves. Armies don't feed themselves. Deportations don't happen because an official wills it. Somebody has to execute the orders.

I am not saying that the government and the people are entirely the same, but I am saying that you can't just divorce them from one another.

[p49k]

You’re ignoring that a small minority of people can effectively repress the majority. The majority of Persians have been resisting as best they can for decades. You’re right that it’s not just the government (every repressive regime has some level of public support) but it’s not true that everyone else is providing tacit approval.

[complianceowl]

That's a great point. It can be tempting to completely divorce them, but you make an important point here: they can't.

[hpcjoe]

> To a degree they are one and the same though. The government still requires the consent of the governed.

This is decidedly untrue. Venezuela, North Korea, and many other counterexamples exist.

Repressive dictatorships do not require consent of the governed. They leverage their monopoly on violence and control. Quite literally, the first item on their agenda while forming is to disarm their populace.

This way, non-consensual governance is easier. No people demanding rights and freedoms, backed up by their ability to impose their will through force of arms. Put another way, they would be able to challenge the monopoly on violence that the (repressive) government holds.

Curiously, this is why the US bill of rights, is so important in guaranteeing freedom. The consent is given, up until the government decides to try to take rights away. Then consent is withdrawn.

[trhway]

>The government still requires the consent of the governed.

government is violence (either actual or a credible threat of it). Application of violence doesn't require consent of the subjects of violence when the violence applying side is many orders of magnitude stronger than the subject.

[FabHK]

You think people in the rest of the world need not distinguish between the Trump administration and the American people?

[stef25]

> Without fail, every single person that has been to Iran rates it their number one country

Only heard similar opinions, which really makes me want to visit. Three female friends of mine went together and they loved it even though there is this omnipresence of the religious police, reminding them to cover up.

The stories they told me of how friendly people are and the things that go on behind closed doors makes it sound like a fascinating place.

[throwaway_tech]

> the things that go on behind closed doors

"House parties"? That happens to be something I hear about a lot from young Iranians that come to the US for school. My understanding is "house parties" are essentially the only time young men/women can socialize together. I also understand sometimes even alcohol will appear at house parties which again I understand to be at least taboo if not outright illegal generally.

[Centigonal]

Alcohol in urban Iran is kind of like weed in parts of the US. Either you have a friend or family member who makes it at home, or you know a guy who delivers. In either case, if you want it, you can get it pretty easily - although the variety may be limited.

[stef25]

Indeed, house parties. Friends met a couple working in a coffee shop type place and they were invited back to their house, they told their neighbors they were siblings cause "informal" couples are frowned upon if not illegal. At home the blinds stayed closed, the conservative clothing discarded and they all had a wonderful night. But "if people find out we're in deep shit".

Apparently the hospitality is so "strong" in Iran you have to almost argue or tell lies to not end up in a different stranger's house every night.

A friend of mine here is an Iraqi refugee, when I met him I was amazed at how cosmopolitan and cultured he is. Like more so than anyone I know here.

It's very humbling to experience all that especially when all we see on TV is screaming religious nutbags.

[throwaway_tech]

>At home the blinds stayed closed

Funny I have gotten the same exact detail from numerous such stories/descriptions.

>But "if people find out we're in deep shit".

I understood it to be an open secret; however, (secret) police are a very real concern and can show up.

[outworlder]

> this omnipresence of the religious police

> I also understand sometimes even alcohol will appear at house parties which again I understand to be at least taboo if not outright illegal generally.

I have a very strong aversion regarding breaking laws, especially if I'm at the mercy of a foreign government.

That sounds like hell on Earth for me.

[FabHK]

Having been to Iran, Indonesia, and several other majority Islamic countries, here's my theory on house parties in said countries:

Given that you're already crossing the line by going to one of these parties, and in trouble if you're found out anyway, you might as well go the whole hog. Cocaine is prohibited, and weed, but so is alcohol. Orgies and adultery and sodomy and BDSM are prohibited, but so is vanilla sex or just being alone with someone of the opposite sex that you're not married to.

The line is drawn so close that it's nearly impossible not to cross it. There are no moral graduations (no shades of gray, as it were) beyond that line anymore. And if you're a sinner anyway, you might as well enjoy it as much as you can.

The more repressed the country, the wilder the (unofficial) parties.

[yodsanklai]

> I absolutely can not wait to go.

I would like to go too. Unfortunately, I also travel frequently to the US and visiting Iran would make further trip to the US potentially problematic.

[arethuza]

I sometimes used to get an alarming amount of grief entering the US because I had quite a few Turkish stamps in my passport as we used to go there a lot on holiday. I hate to think what would happen with an Iranian stamp!

[nradov]

The US government is very concerned about people who use Turkey as an entry point to nearby conflict zones in Syria and Iraq. When I applied for the Global Entry program the only interview question they asked me was why I had visited Turkey.

[aliceryhl]

I have an Iranian visa in my passport, so I had to get a US visa to go to the US. I didn't have to talk to anyone when entering — the electronic thingy scanned the visa, and that was it.

[grecy]

I have a full page visa and entrance stamps from Sudan in my passport, and I've crossed into the US three times now with that in my passport and they've never said a word.

[yodsanklai]

Seems you're not eligible to a Visa Waiver if you traveled to Iran or Sudan. Which means you need to apply for a visa at your US embassy [1] (which in my case was expensive and required a one day trip). Also it's not only a matter of having an Iranian stamp on your passport. You're not eligible for the VWP even if you visited this countries. I wouldn't try to lie about this!

"When can’t I use the VWP (ESTA) and need a visa?

Due to personal circumstances:

you traveled to certain countries (Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen on or after March 1, 2011)"

[1] https://nl.usembassy.gov/visas/visa-waiver-program/

[AWildC182]

I think the issue is that Sudan has a very different dynamic with the US with respect to military intelligence/affairs. I don't really think Sudan is considered a sophisticated threat at the moment.

[Apocryphon]

Not to mention, they appear to be going through a transitional stage towards democracy.

[mostafah]

I think they (Iranian government) recently changed the rules and don’t stamp the visa into the passport. Not sure though, you better do a little research about it.

[marouo]

Went to Iran a few years ago and my esta got declined.

And I'm from Germany...

I don't think I would not get a visa at an embassy.

[mrtksn]

Just get a fresh passport after the trip, with no Iranian stamps. You should be fine unless you are person of interest to intelligence agencies.

[aliceryhl]

This is a bad idea. Just get a visa. I did that and had no issue with getting the visa nor entering. Do not try to break immigration law — you can easily get permanently banned from entry if you lie to immigration officials.

[mrtksn]

Of course, don't lie if you are asked but there's nothing illegal about getting a new passport. Better not have a stamp of a country that is in very bad relations status with the country you are going to visit. Iran is not the only example here.

[aliceryhl]

You still have to answer the question "Have you been to Iran?" when applying for the visa waiver program.

[literallycancer]

Getting a second passport is basically standard procedure, why would that get you banned from entry?

[aliceryhl]

Getting the new passport is not the issue. You have to answer the question "Have you been to Iran?" when applying for the visa waiver program, and this application is what you shouldn't lie on.

[GordonS]

I went for a couple of weeks in 2000, tagging along with my dad who was working there in the oil industry.

I absolutely loved it - it's a large and often beautiful country, of which I only scratched the surface. The people were without exception polite and friendly, and the food was simply amazing.

[thorin]

I have heard very good things about Iran and had a friend who was a software developer from Iran. He hated the government/establishment though and had left for good in the 80s.

Friends that have been on expeditions there kayaking and trekking have been shot at and robbed, but but the pictures do look pretty. I did a self supported kayaking trip to the far east of turkey near Erzurum which is pretty near the border and I assume it would be pretty similar. Very friendly people, great food and scenery.